NEED INPUT: Interested in an inexpensive Pentium M board?

Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited October 2005 in Hardware
If all else fails, I'll try to set up a group buy of the RadiSys LS-855 motherboard. However, I'm trying to get a major motherboard manufacturer to produce a reasonably priced (say, $50-$150- the same as what most other consumer boards go for) Pentium M (Banias & Dothan) ATX or mATX board.

According to AnandTech, the Pentium M is electrically compatible with the P4:
Intel outfitted the Banias with a 64-bit 100MHz quad-pumped FSB, identical in design to the Pentium 4's FSB. The Banias' FSB is even electrically compatible to the Pentium 4's FSB, which is why any Pentium 4 chipset is able to interface with the chip as we saw at IDF with this E7501/Banias setup...

so it should run on say, the i865/875 chipsets as well.

Basically, the point of this thread is to show these manufacturers that there is enough demand for a pentium m board to justify building one. So, who wants one?

//EDIT
At the request of notdrugged at AMDMB's forums (I posted this there too), I'll explain why a mainstream Pentium M board is a good idea.

Reason 1: The Pentium M is very, very fast. The June 2004 issue of laptop magazine has a few notebook reviews in it. Two of the notebooks they tested were a Dell Inspiron 9100 (3.2GHz Pentium 4, 512MB Dual Channel PC3200, 7200RPM/60GB HDD, Radeon 9700m/128mb) and an Acer Travelmate 8000 (1.8GHz Dothan Pentium M, 512MB PC3200, 7200RPM/60GB HDD, Radeon 9700m/128mb).

The Dell hit 11,951 in 3dmark2001se. The Acer hit 11,572. A 1.8GHz Dothan is effectively as fast as a 3.2GHz Pentium 4 It's not just 3dmark, either. The Pentium M is a folding monster, too. It really is a very fast CPU.

Reason 2: The Pentium M is perfect for Home Theater PCs, SFF boxes, and silent systems; in addition to the fact that it's very, very fast, it also runs extremely cool. The 900MHz ULV Pentium M has a thermal design power of only 7w. Even the 1.7GHz Banias, which puts out more heat than the 2.0GHz Dothan, only puts out 24.5w. Compare that to a Prescott Pentium 4 at over 100w, the Athlon 64/Athlon FX/Opteron at around 75w, and the Barton, also at around 75w.

Reason 3: The reason the CPU runs so cool is that it uses very little power. This also makes it ideal for silent systems, because less power means that the power supply will run cooler, and therefore can either be passively cooled, or cooled with much less noise.

So, basically, a Pentium M desktop would be capable of keeping up with the fastest P4/Athlon systems around, while at the same time, running cooler, quieter, and using less power.
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Comments

  • edcentricedcentric near Milwaukee, Wisconsin Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    Having used a M notebook I feel that this is the best all around CPU since the (short lived) P PRO. This would be a chance to show what a well integrated desktop package could do. P4s are brute force, and poorly applied at that.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited June 2004
    Heck yeah, a desktop board from a notable manufacture like Abit, Asus, Epox, MSI, etc. would be great.

    But wouldnt they need a license or something from Intel to do make motherboards using their chipsets? I dont think Intel would approve of this at all, esp since this is where they are going with future CPUs

    Basically, it wont happen at all.
  • Mt_GoatMt_Goat Head Cheezy Knob Pflugerville (north of Austin) Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    Ooohh, the dark side creeps closer and whispers sweet nothings in my ear. They make it sound so sweet too! Actually I had been conteplating getting a P4 for some time and this would make it a no brainer. Hell yea I'm in!!! :cool:
  • drasnordrasnor Starship Operator Hawthorne, CA Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    It'd be kinda short-term though, since supposedly desktop Pentium M's are coming in 2005 (since Intel dumped Tejas).

    -drasnor :fold:
  • ThraxThrax 🐌 Austin, TX Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    Heh. Yeah, they sacked the Tejas and the Jayhawk in favor of a more broadly-applied Pentium M architecture. But I guess Q4 of 04 wouldn't mind seeing a PM board.
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited June 2004
    Thread Stickied!

    GamePC: Dothan Arrives...
    Testing with a new notebook processor is quite difficult, as every notebook platform has different components which are nearly impossible to replicate with a desktop configuration. The ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 graphics processor in our Dothan notebook is based on a 4x1 GPU architecture, the same as the Radeon 9600 Pro/XT graphics processors. The chip runs at 400 MHz GPU / 400 MHz DDR. Using ATITool, we were able to replicate the clock speeds of a Mobility 9700 128MB with a desktop Radeon 9600XT running at custom clock rates. This helps us give even gaming performance numbers between the mobile and desktop platforms.
    What we see is that the Dothan P-M 1.7 GHz handles itself quite well in terms of gaming, giving performance on par with its higher clocked brethren. While we’re assuredly seeing some graphics bottlenecks here due to the limits of the Mobility Radeon 9700 architecture, be assured that the Dothan can be a very nice gaming chip.

    .......

    We have a feeling that a 2.0 GHz Pentium-M CPU could compete quite well in the desktop market against high-end Pentium 4 and Athlon64 processors. On a clock for clock basis, the Dothan core appears to be the most efficient on the market, in terms of performance and consumption. After seeing this chip in action, it's not surprising that Intel is considering chaining multiple Dothan cores together for a high-performance, low-power desktop processor.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited June 2004
    I would definitely be interested in a desktop or SFF Pentium M machine. Just think how it would perform with a modern DC chipset like the i875. Since it's electrically compatible, it wouldn't be too hard for the mobo manufacturers to adapt a present board, I would think.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited June 2004
    bump (gotta keep this thing on the hot threads list- get as many people to vote as possible :))
  • CreepCreep Hell Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    The pirce would be a large factor for me to buy one.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    I said no. As dras stated above, desktop systems based on the Dothan core will be coming out soon. The development cycle on a motherboard is not exactly short, so I don't think we'll be able to encourage anyone to realease a Pentium-M based desktop motherboard before their destop versions would be released.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited June 2004
    Since Pentium M is electrically compatible with the P4, I would think that a simple adaptation of present P4 boards to utilize the pinouts of Pentium M instead of the P4's pinouts would probably suffice, minimizing development costs and the time contraints required to get product to the retail sector. BTW, both the Pentium M and the P4 use the same socket 478 package that you know and love; the difference is the pinouts used. ;)

    Also, I think that it will be closer to 1 1/2-2 years before you see Pentium M technology released to the desktop formally because Intel also has dual core plans for this technology.

    I looked at Intel's website for information on Pentium and and the i855 chipset and I found this page , which is the design guide for using i855 for Pentium M and Celeron M processors. Everyone knows that all Celeron processors since the Celeron 2.0 are based on the P4 Northwood core, so that indicates to me the total compatibility of Intel's P4 chipsets and Pentium M, if Celeron M can use the same i855 chipset as Pentium M.

    In short, that shoots a big hole in your development costs and cycle, GHoosdum. :p;)

    EDIT: After further checking, it seems that the Celeron M processor they are talking about on that page must be based on Banias instead of Northwood but further checking also shows the Celeron M can be used with both the i855 and the i852 GM chipsets. The i852 GM chipset is definitely used on mobile P4 platforms, still proving my point that both processors are electrically compatible.
  • GHoosdumGHoosdum Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    Alright, then count one of those "no" answers as a "yes" because I'd love to see something like that.
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited June 2004
    muddocktor wrote:
    Since Pentium M is electrically compatible with the P4, I would think that a simple adaptation of present P4 boards to utilize the pinouts of Pentium M instead of the P4's pinouts would probably suffice, minimizing development costs and the time contraints required to get product to the retail sector. BTW, both the Pentium M and the P4 use the same socket 478 package that you know and love; the difference is the pinouts used. ;)

    The Pentium M (Banias & Dothan) use a mPGA479 (479 pin) package. Otherwise, current P4 chipsets should work just fine.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited June 2004
    Ok so who wants to take a Intel Desktop board, take the ZIF socket off and wire the CPU Pins to the traces?
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited June 2004
    The Pentium M uses a 479 pin package, I believe.
  • mmonninmmonnin Centreville, VA
    edited June 2004
    And whats the other PIN, ground?
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited June 2004
    Omega65 wrote:
    The Pentium M (Banias & Dothan) use a mPGA479 (479 pin) package. Otherwise, current P4 chipsets should work just fine.


    Actually no, they're wrong. :p

    According to Intel's spec sheet , the processor in Micro-FCPGA packaging is 478 pins. The version that is in Mico-FCBGA packaging is in a 479 ball package.

    I do check sources when I post something like this. ;)
  • Omega65Omega65 Philadelphia, Pa
    edited June 2004
    ;D;D;D

    Check a little further, the only difference is Pin B2 (reserved) is removed in the mFC-PGA version.

    Probably the only reason for the pin is to make the socket different from S478.
  • LeonardoLeonardo Wake up and smell the glaciers Eagle River, Alaska Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    Just what I was thinking all along!! I was way ahead of you guys on this. :bigggrin:





    :bs:
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited June 2004
    *bump* (gotta get people to vote on this poll :))
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited June 2004
    BTW, I put a question into Powerleap asking if they were planning to build an adapter socket to do this. I would think it might be feasible, since they were able to build an adapter to run socket 478 in socket 423 boards. If enough people asked them about it, it might influence them enough to look into doing it.
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited June 2004
    If the P4 is electrically compatible with the Pentium M, might it be possible that normal P4 boards can run the Pentium M?
  • MedlockMedlock Miramar, Florida Member
    edited June 2004
    You got my vote! :) A desktop board for the Pentium M chips would be sweet.
  • qparadoxqparadox Vancouver, BC
    edited June 2004
    For that price range I'm definitely in. I wouldn't want to spend more than $200 cdn for a mobo tho, esp when the procs are sooo expensive.
  • muddocktormuddocktor
    edited June 2004
    Geeky1 wrote:
    If the P4 is electrically compatible with the Pentium M, might it be possible that normal P4 boards can run the Pentium M?

    The pinouts are totally different between the 2. You would at least have to have a converter socket for it to run on present P4 mobos. I think Intel did that on purpose so Banias and Dothan wouldn't be competing (and embarrassing :D ) against P4 procs. :rolleyes:
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    Depends on how fast Dothan core CPUs for desktops roll out. THAT, I would expect to see in next year to 16 months max. An on-package pin remapping adapter could be used, as noted, and the Willamette P4 I sold Prime was one such done by Intel themselves for an earlier gen (willi core, package478 pinning assembly). Package pinout remap redux is very possible.

    I say we talk to INTEL about this one.... :D
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited June 2004
    I doubt Intel would care, altho it may be worth a shot :-/ Besides, the LAST thing I want is an Intel motherboard. Those two words, in that order, are enough to trigger a massive gag reflex from me. Intel. Motherboard. *gag*
  • Geeky1Geeky1 University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
    edited June 2004
    http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53387
    Posting there may help... :)
  • Straight_ManStraight_Man Geeky, in my own way Naples, FL Icrontian
    edited June 2004
    Geeky1 wrote:
    I doubt Intel would care, altho it may be worth a shot :-/ Besides, the LAST thing I want is an Intel motherboard. Those two words, in that order, are enough to trigger a massive gag reflex from me. Intel. Motherboard. *gag*

    TRY a Dothan with a pin-pack for socket 478 package compatibility.... CPU.... Not a Intel board, Intel CPU and chipset. IC7-Max3 motherboard running Dothan would be a drooler of a combo for me.... EVEN if the CPU is OEM only! :D
  • jchanbrjchanbr Brazil - São Paulo
    edited June 2004
    Via will release its Esther processor next semester and will use the pentium M fsb pinout layout and probably will release some mini-atx or mini-itx compatible mobo, who know will serve for the pentium m too!

    http://www.via.com.tw/en/Digital%20Library/PR040106IBMfoundry1.jsp

    Or an alternative is to use the new A64 754pins mobile with low voltage and large 1mb cache. New Abit K8Vpro seems like a hot mobo.

    :)
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