I agree with you on the res ...I'm not really going to mount it in that spot I was just thinking of housing the fill hose there after the tee. That way it will still be at the highest point and able to trap and contain air. I can use the cap of the bayres to cap it off.
As for the box I really do need to build a new one ...this one is in pretty bad shape. The reason I'm switching to the top is to place the heatsource top and rear. Anything escaping from the hose passage will get swept out by the airflow and I won't have to contend with video heat issues.
Idunno goat this case heat really has me twisted. I'm just concerned that placing it on the bottom will dissipate heat back into the case where I don't want it at all. I also really need to get rid of that noisy blow hole fan.
I'll keep mulling it over but I'd like to start the build on monday.
As for the gpu block let me get comfy with what I got so far!
0
Mt_GoatHead Cheezy KnobPflugerville (north of Austin)Icrontian
edited April 2005
As long as the hole between the case and box is on the intake side of the box there will be minimal heat transferred to the case. A positive case pressure will help too. I would still block most of the hole with something to help keep heat out. Also, making a top for the box would help shield the case from convection heating. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the rad would be an easy place for air to get trapped if placed at the top of the loop. That in turn would reduce the cooling ability of the entire system and be harder to bleed air out of it.
ok how about this ...I just realized I'll need some 3 pin extension to read a mobo header for the fans either way I go.
I'll have to juggle with the tube holes so that I don't put too much bend radius and end up with a pinch but I think I can manage.
now ...do you really think I should leave the pump inside the case as it will add extra heat? If I move it to the box it might be an extra obstruction to the air flow.
While piecing together the 3d prototype I realized my front and rear were 3/8" too tall. Thank goodness for spare time!
I like to cut my foam core as quickly as possible and get it over with ...mistakes annoy me so I plan it as well as I can. I'll deal with the partitions later.
Also I've included the graphics adapter specs :shakehead ...I'd really love to see what parhelia would do!
If I might make a suggestion, with a Whitewater block and the added head it creates if you find that you're getting higher temps than you hoped for get a second pump and run them in series to make up for the head loss.
ah madmat this is the post I've been looking for.
I will order the 2nd pump within a few weeks to increase the head pressure. The whitewater is way more constrictive than i though and so is the heat core. I really need to bring the temps to at least what I was getting before with the air cooler.
so would I have any issues if I mount the T close to but after the Y on the downswing for the fill tube? I know it would probably be best if set level but that is next to impossible to do with the Y having equal lengths and the tight fits inside the case. I would like to take the bay res out of the loop altogether.
sorry about the hurried sketch
I see an advantage to that as well as a disadvantage though. The lower I put it the more hose I'll have to run to reach the high point.
So may I ask why pre-tell??? ...in La.
Why so low is it to make draining easier or does it have some other advantage to being so close to the suck end?
well I ordered a csp-mag today. just after the order had processed I get an email response from c-systems concerning a question I asked earlier.
Can I run my csp-750 and csp-mag in series. The answer was ..."you cannot run the csp-750 in series".
Anyone wanna buy a csp-750?
edit:\ I wrote tech support and asked why the csp-750 won't run in series ...this is the response:
"You can run a 750 with a MAG, just not in series.
The 750 and the MAG generate almost 3 psi, the only reason you would ever
need more head pressure, is if you use very small tubing.
With 3/8 tubing, both models will produce over 5 liters per minute even on
the most restrictive cooling blocks.
There are no cooling blocks on the market that benefit from flow over 4.5
l/m."
So is this guy telling me that there's no benefit to a higher flow rate as well?
I haven't changed anything yet. I'm folding along @ 2.2ghz and temps are still high. I have the pump plugged in to the cpu fan header to monitor the impellers at like 2650 rpms. I get home and the temps are still like 47c cpu and 33c sys.
So I'm sitting here browsing the forum and all of a sudden the eq alarm goes off and I'm like oh sh**!
I check eq and the cpu rpm is at 0 and I think ...the pump went out.
So ...I sit here and watch temps.
All of sudden the temps begin to drop and I'm still folding 100% load.
The cpu temp since has dropped 3c and the sys temp has dropped 7c.
That's all I know ...I don't know what happened but eq is no longer able to monitor that header (w/ pump plugged into it at least) it just reads 0.
I'm building the box out of a leftover maple plank from my house cabinets. My tools are limited so don't laugh when you see the pics k? I should have a few within the next few days.
0
Mt_GoatHead Cheezy KnobPflugerville (north of Austin)Icrontian
edited April 2005
No! No! Send me the Maple and I will send you some tinted plexiglass.
ok ...the external maple enclosure is coming tomorrow and monday.
I have my first coat of pecan stain/sealant and the sanding/final coat will be tomorrow. My garage looks like a sand dune. I don't think tracie will let me take any wood working projects again any time soon. :shakehead
I'll post a few pics tomorrow and maybe monday.
0
Mt_GoatHead Cheezy KnobPflugerville (north of Austin)Icrontian
edited April 2005
Get on with it man, get on with it!
Tracie will let you build more. I just don't think she wan't to see or know much about it.
ok enough jibber jabber here goes.
I still have work to do inside the box like sound proofing and vacuum sealing the shroud and such but I just wanted to get it functional for now.
I ordered a MAG unit and I will be refunded $29 for the 750 as soon as I mail it back to c-systems canada. It's supposed to perform slightly better.
If my temps don't improve then I will try a few things that should help with the heat intrusion from the rear vent holes. I plan on adding another MAG in series a little later.
If my temps don't improve by all of that I will probably go air cooled on my next rig since I have seen 0 improvement over my aircooling setup. The noise issue isn't solved but I will be working on that as well.
At the point I am now with this set up I would say I am not equal to the air cooling alternative I previously used. It took a bit of effort to get this far.
I used a big mag drive (bought at home depot btw....) when I was watercooling and the problem with some of the big ass pumps like the one I was using was they heated the water up a ton them selves.
I was running a huge 6 foot tall bong setup and it still knocked the temps down a good deal but unless your pushing a severe OC its way cheaper to get a reasonable air cooler usually and take the water cooling costs and just buy a way faster cpu with that instead of OC'ing.
I have really adjusted my thinking a lot since the amd 64's came out. If your not OC'ing and trying to push the limits with 3dmark scores just get a quiet aircooler and leave it alone.
The $12 coolermasters have mine idleing at 40 degrees so why bother with more?
I mean anymore a normal non-chilled water setup is more for noise in my mind. You have to go to extremes to get a big reduction in temps.
I mean with exotic parts you can get colder but.... 5 degrees or less for the money you spend on a nice normal non-chilled water setup isnt a super deal to me.
Scary thing is I was buying those big huge all copper Zalmans with 92mm fans caus ethey were cheap and quiet.
And the $12 coolermasters I bought last week idle within a degree or two of the stupid zalmans. And are about equal in noise too.
More like a nice A64 system after all you've been through!
hehe ...you read my mind I was thinking along the lines of taking a trip to san diego next season!
I just got home and noticed that although the ambient is warm the cpu is cooling a little better today. Maybe it's working out some air bubbles and taking some time as it's been about 42 hours only now.
I'm folding a tinker at 43c cpu 27c sys which is a little encouraging now.
3000xp+ barton @ 2.3g/400m 2-2-2-11 & 1.675vcore.
I'll stay here for a few days and see what happens. I'll take on a gromac next and see what happens there as well.
I have a feeling that your CSP 750 is not providing the oomph that your whitewater requires. Adding another in series will certainly help, but I've heard that it takes it's toll on those pumps pretty quickly. I remember reading somewhere that c-systems did not recommend anything other than parallel setups (to increase flow rate). I have a DangerDen D4 pump (same as the Swiftech MCP650), and I must say, it is a monster of a DC pump if you are considering a replacement. The flow it produces in unbelievable!. 350lph IIRC, and over 10.5 ft of head as well. When I initially fill my system, the water flows into my res with such force that there is literally no arch in the stream of water coming through the return inlet, it's like a straight jet of water My only beef is that it not very quiet. High pitched whine, easily masked by case fans, but not pleasant with fans turned down. I've heard that the later revisions correct this noise issue.
Another tip as well: See if you can somehow (even if it looks fugly) place an 80mm or larger fan so that it blows onto the socket area. This made a significant improvement in my temps when I had my XP system. With the same watercooling gear in my sig, I got about 38-39 full load with my XP 3000+ @2.4GHz, 1.85V. This was with my 9800pro in the loop too (2D underclocked @ 200MHz core) Running it as a second machine now with the oem hsf. 56 degrees load now breaks my heart
I have a feeling that your CSP 750 is not providing the oomph that your whitewater requires. Adding another in series will certainly help, but I've heard that it takes it's toll on those pumps pretty quickly. I remember reading somewhere that c-systems did not recommend anything other than parallel setups (to increase flow rate). I have a DangerDen D4 pump (same as the Swiftech MCP650), and I must say, it is a monster of a DC pump if you are considering a replacement. The flow it produces in unbelievable!. 350lph IIRC, and over 10.5 ft of head as well. When I initially fill my system, the water flows into my res with such force that there is literally no arch in the stream of water coming through the return inlet, it's like a straight jet of water My only beef is that it not very quiet. High pitched whine, easily masked by case fans, but not pleasant with fans turned down. I've heard that the later revisions correct this noise issue.
Another tip as well: See if you can somehow (even if it looks fugly) place an 80mm or larger fan so that it blows onto the socket area. This made a significant improvement in my temps when I had my XP system. With the same watercooling gear in my sig, I got about 38-39 full load with my XP 3000+ @2.4GHz, 1.85V. This was with my 9800pro in the loop too (2D underclocked @ 200MHz core) Running it as a second machine now with the oem hsf. 56 degrees load now breaks my heart
thanks for the encouragement lemon that's exactly what I needed to hear.
Yes the 750 isn't designed for long term loop use. That was confirmed by Dave this afternoon from c-systems. The new MAG design however is designed for that purpose.
As I said earlier there is a MAG on it's way and I'll be returning the 750 for a partial refund. The MAG has an improved design overall and offers both better performance in head pressure and flow as a standalone or in parallel or series config. The aluminum contact issue has also been addressed.
I am hoping the better head & flow will improve things since as it seems now the back pressure seems so weak that it appears to only trickle which front pressure is seemingly doing well. I have nothing to test and verify this though it's only what I've observed.
I have a spare TT smartfan 2 so I'll try and figure out a way to support it over the block as you suggested. I need all of the hints I can grab.
Thanks!
Also, I noticed at my new house that the extra insulation is really paying off. The ambient was around 74 and when I went to check on the a/c setting I found it was turned off. My mother-in-law just informed me that she left hers off today and walked into an 80d house this afternoon. So the design is definitely working for me there and should benefit my system cooling in a few weeks when I move in!
Comments
As for the box I really do need to build a new one ...this one is in pretty bad shape. The reason I'm switching to the top is to place the heatsource top and rear. Anything escaping from the hose passage will get swept out by the airflow and I won't have to contend with video heat issues.
Idunno goat this case heat really has me twisted. I'm just concerned that placing it on the bottom will dissipate heat back into the case where I don't want it at all. I also really need to get rid of that noisy blow hole fan.
I'll keep mulling it over but I'd like to start the build on monday.
As for the gpu block let me get comfy with what I got so far!
I'll have to juggle with the tube holes so that I don't put too much bend radius and end up with a pinch but I think I can manage.
I like to cut my foam core as quickly as possible and get it over with ...mistakes annoy me so I plan it as well as I can. I'll deal with the partitions later.
Also I've included the graphics adapter specs :shakehead ...I'd really love to see what parhelia would do!
ah madmat this is the post I've been looking for.
I will order the 2nd pump within a few weeks to increase the head pressure. The whitewater is way more constrictive than i though and so is the heat core. I really need to bring the temps to at least what I was getting before with the air cooler.
sorry about the hurried sketch
I see an advantage to that as well as a disadvantage though. The lower I put it the more hose I'll have to run to reach the high point.
So may I ask why pre-tell??? ...in La.
Why so low is it to make draining easier or does it have some other advantage to being so close to the suck end?
Can I run my csp-750 and csp-mag in series. The answer was ..."you cannot run the csp-750 in series".
Anyone wanna buy a csp-750?
edit:\ I wrote tech support and asked why the csp-750 won't run in series ...this is the response:
"You can run a 750 with a MAG, just not in series.
The 750 and the MAG generate almost 3 psi, the only reason you would ever
need more head pressure, is if you use very small tubing.
With 3/8 tubing, both models will produce over 5 liters per minute even on
the most restrictive cooling blocks.
There are no cooling blocks on the market that benefit from flow over 4.5
l/m."
So is this guy telling me that there's no benefit to a higher flow rate as well?
I think I will "go with the flow"!
I haven't changed anything yet. I'm folding along @ 2.2ghz and temps are still high. I have the pump plugged in to the cpu fan header to monitor the impellers at like 2650 rpms. I get home and the temps are still like 47c cpu and 33c sys.
So I'm sitting here browsing the forum and all of a sudden the eq alarm goes off and I'm like oh sh**!
I check eq and the cpu rpm is at 0 and I think ...the pump went out.
So ...I sit here and watch temps.
All of sudden the temps begin to drop and I'm still folding 100% load.
The cpu temp since has dropped 3c and the sys temp has dropped 7c.
That's all I know ...I don't know what happened but eq is no longer able to monitor that header (w/ pump plugged into it at least) it just reads 0.
wtf cut loose?
"Throw me the Idol and I throw you the whip."
I have my first coat of pecan stain/sealant and the sanding/final coat will be tomorrow. My garage looks like a sand dune. I don't think tracie will let me take any wood working projects again any time soon. :shakehead
I'll post a few pics tomorrow and maybe monday.
Tracie will let you build more. I just don't think she wan't to see or know much about it.
You know her???
I still have work to do inside the box like sound proofing and vacuum sealing the shroud and such but I just wanted to get it functional for now.
If my temps don't improve then I will try a few things that should help with the heat intrusion from the rear vent holes. I plan on adding another MAG in series a little later.
If my temps don't improve by all of that I will probably go air cooled on my next rig since I have seen 0 improvement over my aircooling setup. The noise issue isn't solved but I will be working on that as well.
At the point I am now with this set up I would say I am not equal to the air cooling alternative I previously used. It took a bit of effort to get this far.
I was running a huge 6 foot tall bong setup and it still knocked the temps down a good deal but unless your pushing a severe OC its way cheaper to get a reasonable air cooler usually and take the water cooling costs and just buy a way faster cpu with that instead of OC'ing.
I have really adjusted my thinking a lot since the amd 64's came out. If your not OC'ing and trying to push the limits with 3dmark scores just get a quiet aircooler and leave it alone.
The $12 coolermasters have mine idleing at 40 degrees so why bother with more?
tex
I mean with exotic parts you can get colder but.... 5 degrees or less for the money you spend on a nice normal non-chilled water setup isnt a super deal to me.
Scary thing is I was buying those big huge all copper Zalmans with 92mm fans caus ethey were cheap and quiet.
And the $12 coolermasters I bought last week idle within a degree or two of the stupid zalmans. And are about equal in noise too.
Tex
I just got home and noticed that although the ambient is warm the cpu is cooling a little better today. Maybe it's working out some air bubbles and taking some time as it's been about 42 hours only now.
I'm folding a tinker at 43c cpu 27c sys which is a little encouraging now.
3000xp+ barton @ 2.3g/400m 2-2-2-11 & 1.675vcore.
I'll stay here for a few days and see what happens. I'll take on a gromac next and see what happens there as well.
The tell tale sign will be this summer.
I have a feeling that your CSP 750 is not providing the oomph that your whitewater requires. Adding another in series will certainly help, but I've heard that it takes it's toll on those pumps pretty quickly. I remember reading somewhere that c-systems did not recommend anything other than parallel setups (to increase flow rate). I have a DangerDen D4 pump (same as the Swiftech MCP650), and I must say, it is a monster of a DC pump if you are considering a replacement. The flow it produces in unbelievable!. 350lph IIRC, and over 10.5 ft of head as well. When I initially fill my system, the water flows into my res with such force that there is literally no arch in the stream of water coming through the return inlet, it's like a straight jet of water
Another tip as well: See if you can somehow (even if it looks fugly) place an 80mm or larger fan so that it blows onto the socket area. This made a significant improvement in my temps when I had my XP system. With the same watercooling gear in my sig, I got about 38-39 full load with my XP 3000+ @2.4GHz, 1.85V. This was with my 9800pro in the loop too (2D underclocked @ 200MHz core) Running it as a second machine now with the oem hsf. 56 degrees load now
Yes the 750 isn't designed for long term loop use. That was confirmed by Dave this afternoon from c-systems. The new MAG design however is designed for that purpose.
As I said earlier there is a MAG on it's way and I'll be returning the 750 for a partial refund. The MAG has an improved design overall and offers both better performance in head pressure and flow as a standalone or in parallel or series config. The aluminum contact issue has also been addressed.
I am hoping the better head & flow will improve things since as it seems now the back pressure seems so weak that it appears to only trickle which front pressure is seemingly doing well. I have nothing to test and verify this though it's only what I've observed.
I have a spare TT smartfan 2 so I'll try and figure out a way to support it over the block as you suggested. I need all of the hints I can grab.
Thanks!
Also, I noticed at my new house that the extra insulation is really paying off. The ambient was around 74 and when I went to check on the a/c setting I found it was turned off. My mother-in-law just informed me that she left hers off today and walked into an 80d house this afternoon. So the design is definitely working for me there and should benefit my system cooling in a few weeks when I move in!