Ah, stupid.... :banghead:
I could have read the thread more carefully myself, but thnx drasnor!
I think i will go for the 603's, but first holiday. This will be a nice project for august
Just for preparation, what does a noob (=me) need/do to achieve this:
To mod the standoffs, you're going to need:
A bench vise or some way to clamp the standoff to your workbench.
A 3mm metric die. I bought mine at our local Breed & Co.
A die wrench that fits your die.
A can of light machine oil.
Step 1: Clamp standoff so that all of the thread is outside the clamp.
Step 2: Drip a few drops of light machine oil onto the standoff's thread.
Step 3: Insert your die into your die wrench and lock it in place.
Step 4: Press opening in die over standoff's thread firmly while rotating die in clockwise direction to start threading.
Step 5: Once thread is started, simply rotate die clockwise until the die bottoms out against the standoff. Stop twisting at this point or you'll break the standoff. It's ok to break one or two, since Swiftech gives you extras, but it's a royal pain to get the broken standoff out of the die.
Step 6: Back the die out by rotating the die wrench counterclockwise.
Step 7: Wipe down your new 3mm metric standoffs with a shop rag or paper towel.
Repeat for all 8 standoffs.
To mod the socket mounts (assuming you bought the universal ones instead of the MCX603 thru-motherboard mounts), you're going to need:
A bench vise or some way to clamp down the mount securely to your workbench.
A Dremel high-speed rotary tool (modder's best friend) w/ cutter mandril and a (few) reinforced cutting wheel.
A flat bastard file.
Step 1: Identify holes belonging to s423/s603 pattern and mark.
Step 2: Clamp mount securely to your workbench. You do not want it to slip at all.
Step 3: Attach high speed reinforced cutting wheel to Dremel tool as per Dremel manual. Be sure to read the Dremel manual cover to cover and remember to let the speed do the work. It doesn't have very high torque.
Step 4: Cut across other holes in mount, leaving as much metal as you can around the s423/s603 holes and where the motherboard screws go through. Be steady with your hands while you do this or you'll apply force on the surface of the cutting wheel and frag it. The mount will probably glow red hot in places and shoot sparks while you do this.
Step 5: File as needed.
Repeat for other three mounts.
Well, I understand just enough of that to know that I shouldn't try it..
@Kimgar
Your idea suits me better. A screwdriver is about the most complicated tool I can handle :-)
But I checked out what I think is the original CPU1 fan (thermaltake, 70x70x1.5 5500RPM, 44.5dBA, yup, that must be it..) and it shows an airflow of 43.2CFM, which would amount to 80-90m3/h. Less than that will probably do, but the fan you suggested does only 47.5, which seems a bit low.
They do have some other interesting options though:
- LFM1580HV (3000RPM, 70m3/h, 38dBA). This may not be as quiet as we'd like, but it should work with the smart fan option.
- LFM3580XTL (up to 3200RPM, 82.5m3/h, 32dBA.) This does not work with smart fan. Instead it has it's own sensor, and adjusts the speed accordingly.
Your input regarding the cooling mod is highly appreciated.
With the risk of appearing to have understood nothing could you confirm that you have removed the black plastic retention-brackets surface mounted on the mb?
If some day, you have the cpu´s off the board - could you please take a picture of your modification to the cooler and standoff, please ;-)
I have to correct myself regarding the CFM ~ m3/h calculation. I used a factor 2 as a rough estimate, but in fact it should be 1.62. So 43.2CFM would be just 70m3/h, rather than 80-90.
I dont know if this will interrest anyone, but I just cleaned of some old thermal paste of the stock MSI heatsinks. It seems that the "odd" heatsink near the AGP slot has been applied with a layer of varnish, while the other heatsink has not. Probably to keep the copper goodlooking? I dont know if this has any thermal implications but woth a try.
With the risk of appearing to have understood nothing could you confirm that you have removed the black plastic retention-brackets surface mounted on the mb?
That's correct. The mod has the heatsinks mounting through the holes used to mount the plastic heatsink retention mechanism. I'm probably not going to take the whole thing apart anytime soon, but if I feel like fooling with it I'll be sure to take some photos.
I dont know if this will interrest anyone, but I just cleaned of some old thermal paste of the stock MSI heatsinks. It seems that the "odd" heatsink near the AGP slot has been applied with a layer of varnish, while the other heatsink has not. Probably to keep the copper goodlooking? I dont know if this has any thermal implications but woth a try.
He was talking about lapping the heatsink, which is a mod that will nearly always yield results. There are several threads on lapping heatsinks, so I'm not going to discuss it here.
Lapping the CPU's helps also, but I paid $1000 each for these CPU's when I bought them last year w/ 3 year warranty and I'm not ready to void that warranty.
Today I received the fans I ordered at www.smartcooler.de. I put the LFM1580HV's in and am quite happy with te result: at full speed (slightly less than 3000RPM) they perform similar to the original fans, but with a fraction of the noise. At smartfan speed fan1 does much better than the original, fan2 slightly worse. (Originally fan1 would speed up every 1-2 min, even when the CPUs were idle. Now fan1 will stabilize but fan2 needs to speed up at times, but only every 7-9 minutes, and at this noise level you hardly notice it.)
Two tips for people who want to try this too:
- I think they changed some of the partnumbers last week, so check before you order.
- the 7-to-8 fan adapter doesn't fit between the handles that keep the heatsink in place. I took the original fan apart and used the outer part to put the adapter on top of that.
I also ordered a pair of LFM3580XTL's, which can regulate their speed by temperature. They have a sensor: a pair of 8 cm black wires joined at the end. I'd like to try these next, but I'm a bit scared they may not handle it if the sensor is not in the right place. Does anyone know what would be the best way to mount these ??
I've tried the XTL's now, with the sensorwire hanging more or less loose between the copper heatsink and it's metal shield. For CPU 2 this worked out quite well, for CPU 1 I may want to find a better location because it's underestimating the temperature by at least 10-15C. Still its running fast enough (~2000RPM) to keep the CPU cool, and it does sense an increase in temperature and reacts as needed, so this solution also works well, and its even quieter.
Generally speaking, I wouldn't use temperature-controlled fans on my processors. The only exception is if the thermal diode in the processor was the thermal sensor, and even then I'd be wary. MSI has a processor fan temperature control built into the board if you're interested. I think they named it Smart CPU fan control and it's accessible through the BIOS.
There's two problems with the BIOS facility:
- with my CPU's the BIOS readings are too high (Newcastle syndrome) so you really cannot configure it correctly. (Waiting for a BIOS upgrade to correct this.)
- even though the smartfan facility of the winbond chip allows de controlling voltage to be set in 16 steps, MSI has wired it in such a way that only two speeds are available. As a result the temperatures would go up and down all the time, with the fans switching between the two speeds. In my current setup it will reach a steady state, and unless the load is very high for a long time the temperature will actually be lower than I could achieve through the BIOS.
Running the fans at full speed all of the time was not an option with the original fans because of the noise. But it is with the sensorless pair I tried on monday, and I may revert to that setup, because it's even cooler, with the soundlevel completely acceptable.
However, I've also been thinking about using those to replace the casefans, which are now the loudest part of the computer.
Say does anyone know where the 4 screws and the 2 retention modules can be bought at? Or is this an MSI only part..... :usflag:
In which case has anyone asked MSI If anyone sold these parts?
The four screws are standard 3mm metric screws. The retention modules I can't find anywhere, but they're made by AVC (Asian Vital Components) if that helps.
The four screws are standard 3mm metric screws. The retention modules I can't find anywhere, but they're made by AVC (Asian Vital Components) if that helps.
-drasnor
Yeah, I found out about the screws, 3mm, I looked up AVC, And I left a message on MSIs forums about this, Some have said that 603 water blocks and heatsinks won't fit as one of the holes is off by a couple of millimeters and thats why I asked, It's either that or try and adapt a real 478 retention mechanism(I saw one in Yellow Plastic too). MSI could have just used a real 478 retention mechanism instead and saved US all a lot of trouble(Cheap Bastards), If I had the money I'd just copy the ones that I have and sell the extra copies to those Who asked for a nominal fee to recoup My costs(Hang any copyright too).
As far as waterblocks go, any xeon or socket 423 block will fit? the msi site says any 4X8cm block will fit and gives a nice innovatek plug for their waterblock. but is that measurement specific to the socket 423 spacing or just a generalized measurement? maybe i missed this somewhere in the thread, i apologize in advance if i did.
Yeah, anything with an 80mm square or less footprint and Socket423/603 thru-board mount holes will likely work, though you may need to modify the mounting hardware to work with the MSI CPU support plates (but if you've read through this thread you'd know that).
As far as waterblocks go, any xeon or socket 423 block will fit? the msi site says any 4X8cm block will fit and gives a nice innovatek plug for their waterblock. but is that measurement specific to the socket 423 spacing or just a generalized measurement? maybe i missed this somewhere in the thread, i apologize in advance if i did.
I wish It were 423, As far as I know no one makes a water block for socket 423, At least two make 603 blocks as that is a Xeon type and so is 604, I'm trying to get 2 retention modules and the 4-3mm screws from MSI as MSI is who had them custom made, then I'll be able to mount either 2-SLK-947U Thermalright heatsinks or 2-SLK-948 Thermalright heatsinks or one of each, Look at both and You'll notice that They look a like and except for a couple of parts They are. One user on 2cpu.com said that He had to modify a pair of Xeon water blocks in one corner by a couple of mm as one hole was off by a couple of millimeters, So I don't know how compatible the holes are on the motherboard with Xeon type Water block mountings. The retention modules are for clip-on socket 478 heatsinks.
Yeah, anything with an 80mm square or less footprint and Socket423/603 thru-board mount holes will likely work, though you may need to modify the mounting hardware to work with the MSI CPU support plates (but if you've read through this thread you'd know that).
-drasnor
I think this 80mm square bit is just for the cpu fans, As long as the heatsinks aren't any wider than 80mm, Even an SLK-947U or an SLK-948 should fit and note both need 478 retention modules as these heatsinks can be clipped on using the modules from MSI, As I don't know If either of the two can use the holes on the motherboard though.
Socket423 hole spacing = Socket603 hole spacing = Socket604 hole spacing.
They sell the 3mm screws at the hardware store; it's where I bought my 3mm die.
SLK947's won't fit because they're oriented the wrong way (they interfere with each other and the lower one interferes with the AGP slot, believe me this is the first idea I explored), see page 1 or 2 because we already had this discussion. Even if I had 2 sets of the s478 retention modules they wouldn't fit.
You have to remove the retention modules to attach thru-board 423/603/604 heatsinks.
Your friend on 2cpu probably had blocks where the holes weren't drilled properly on the block necessitating the mod. Not all water blocks are created equal.
The holes on my board lined up perfectly with the holes in my MCX462+ thru-board mounts.
I did the whole mod on the MCX462+ because I was unable to locate a second pair of the custom MSI s478 retention modules. I wish you better luck than I had in my search.
EDIT:// 80mm is the keepout zone for components on the board.
EDIT:// Typo- I modded MCX462+, not MCX478+.
I have just one question (yes i real all the thread! ) >>
I have this board too but i'm looking for a cooling system. I want to buy the simplest way a P4 s478 because i have two retention bracket for this type of socket on my board!
can anyone give me a good p478 heatsink that i can use with this board?
i'm thinking about this one :
Comments
A bench vise or some way to clamp the standoff to your workbench.
A 3mm metric die. I bought mine at our local Breed & Co.
A die wrench that fits your die.
A can of light machine oil.
Step 1: Clamp standoff so that all of the thread is outside the clamp.
Step 2: Drip a few drops of light machine oil onto the standoff's thread.
Step 3: Insert your die into your die wrench and lock it in place.
Step 4: Press opening in die over standoff's thread firmly while rotating die in clockwise direction to start threading.
Step 5: Once thread is started, simply rotate die clockwise until the die bottoms out against the standoff. Stop twisting at this point or you'll break the standoff. It's ok to break one or two, since Swiftech gives you extras, but it's a royal pain to get the broken standoff out of the die.
Step 6: Back the die out by rotating the die wrench counterclockwise.
Step 7: Wipe down your new 3mm metric standoffs with a shop rag or paper towel.
Repeat for all 8 standoffs.
To mod the socket mounts (assuming you bought the universal ones instead of the MCX603 thru-motherboard mounts), you're going to need:
A bench vise or some way to clamp down the mount securely to your workbench.
A Dremel high-speed rotary tool (modder's best friend) w/ cutter mandril and a (few) reinforced cutting wheel.
A flat bastard file.
Step 1: Identify holes belonging to s423/s603 pattern and mark.
Step 2: Clamp mount securely to your workbench. You do not want it to slip at all.
Step 3: Attach high speed reinforced cutting wheel to Dremel tool as per Dremel manual. Be sure to read the Dremel manual cover to cover and remember to let the speed do the work. It doesn't have very high torque.
Step 4: Cut across other holes in mount, leaving as much metal as you can around the s423/s603 holes and where the motherboard screws go through. Be steady with your hands while you do this or you'll apply force on the surface of the cutting wheel and frag it. The mount will probably glow red hot in places and shoot sparks while you do this.
Step 5: File as needed.
Repeat for other three mounts.
Have fun!
-drasnor
@Kimgar
Your idea suits me better. A screwdriver is about the most complicated tool I can handle :-)
But I checked out what I think is the original CPU1 fan (thermaltake, 70x70x1.5 5500RPM, 44.5dBA, yup, that must be it..) and it shows an airflow of 43.2CFM, which would amount to 80-90m3/h. Less than that will probably do, but the fan you suggested does only 47.5, which seems a bit low.
They do have some other interesting options though:
- LFM1580HV (3000RPM, 70m3/h, 38dBA). This may not be as quiet as we'd like, but it should work with the smart fan option.
- LFM3580XTL (up to 3200RPM, 82.5m3/h, 32dBA.) This does not work with smart fan. Instead it has it's own sensor, and adjusts the speed accordingly.
I ordered both, to see which one works best.
Your input regarding the cooling mod is highly appreciated.
With the risk of appearing to have understood nothing could you confirm that you have removed the black plastic retention-brackets surface mounted on the mb?
If some day, you have the cpu´s off the board - could you please take a picture of your modification to the cooler and standoff, please ;-)
Kind regards
3dfreelancer
3dfreelancer
-drasnor
Lapping the CPU's helps also, but I paid $1000 each for these CPU's when I bought them last year w/ 3 year warranty and I'm not ready to void that warranty.
-drasnor
Should've done more reading before I posted. Thanks.
Two tips for people who want to try this too:
- I think they changed some of the partnumbers last week, so check before you order.
- the 7-to-8 fan adapter doesn't fit between the handles that keep the heatsink in place. I took the original fan apart and used the outer part to put the adapter on top of that.
I also ordered a pair of LFM3580XTL's, which can regulate their speed by temperature. They have a sensor: a pair of 8 cm black wires joined at the end. I'd like to try these next, but I'm a bit scared they may not handle it if the sensor is not in the right place. Does anyone know what would be the best way to mount these ??
-drasnor
- with my CPU's the BIOS readings are too high (Newcastle syndrome) so you really cannot configure it correctly. (Waiting for a BIOS upgrade to correct this.)
- even though the smartfan facility of the winbond chip allows de controlling voltage to be set in 16 steps, MSI has wired it in such a way that only two speeds are available. As a result the temperatures would go up and down all the time, with the fans switching between the two speeds. In my current setup it will reach a steady state, and unless the load is very high for a long time the temperature will actually be lower than I could achieve through the BIOS.
Running the fans at full speed all of the time was not an option with the original fans because of the noise. But it is with the sensorless pair I tried on monday, and I may revert to that setup, because it's even cooler, with the soundlevel completely acceptable.
However, I've also been thinking about using those to replace the casefans, which are now the loudest part of the computer.
In which case has anyone asked MSI If anyone sold these parts?
-drasnor
Yeah, I found out about the screws, 3mm, I looked up AVC, And I left a message on MSIs forums about this, Some have said that 603 water blocks and heatsinks won't fit as one of the holes is off by a couple of millimeters and thats why I asked, It's either that or try and adapt a real 478 retention mechanism(I saw one in Yellow Plastic too). MSI could have just used a real 478 retention mechanism instead and saved US all a lot of trouble(Cheap Bastards), If I had the money I'd just copy the ones that I have and sell the extra copies to those Who asked for a nominal fee to recoup My costs(Hang any copyright too).
-drasnor
I wish It were 423, As far as I know no one makes a water block for socket 423, At least two make 603 blocks as that is a Xeon type and so is 604, I'm trying to get 2 retention modules and the 4-3mm screws from MSI as MSI is who had them custom made, then I'll be able to mount either 2-SLK-947U Thermalright heatsinks or 2-SLK-948 Thermalright heatsinks or one of each, Look at both and You'll notice that They look a like and except for a couple of parts They are. One user on 2cpu.com said that He had to modify a pair of Xeon water blocks in one corner by a couple of mm as one hole was off by a couple of millimeters, So I don't know how compatible the holes are on the motherboard with Xeon type Water block mountings. The retention modules are for clip-on socket 478 heatsinks.
I think this 80mm square bit is just for the cpu fans, As long as the heatsinks aren't any wider than 80mm, Even an SLK-947U or an SLK-948 should fit and note both need 478 retention modules as these heatsinks can be clipped on using the modules from MSI, As I don't know If either of the two can use the holes on the motherboard though.
Socket423 hole spacing = Socket603 hole spacing = Socket604 hole spacing.
They sell the 3mm screws at the hardware store; it's where I bought my 3mm die.
SLK947's won't fit because they're oriented the wrong way (they interfere with each other and the lower one interferes with the AGP slot, believe me this is the first idea I explored), see page 1 or 2 because we already had this discussion. Even if I had 2 sets of the s478 retention modules they wouldn't fit.
You have to remove the retention modules to attach thru-board 423/603/604 heatsinks.
Your friend on 2cpu probably had blocks where the holes weren't drilled properly on the block necessitating the mod. Not all water blocks are created equal.
The holes on my board lined up perfectly with the holes in my MCX462+ thru-board mounts.
I did the whole mod on the MCX462+ because I was unable to locate a second pair of the custom MSI s478 retention modules. I wish you better luck than I had in my search.
EDIT:// 80mm is the keepout zone for components on the board.
EDIT:// Typo- I modded MCX462+, not MCX478+.
-drasnor
-drasnor
-drasnor
Part # MCX604-VRK for Xeon "Nocona" is also available for upgrade of all MCX603-V heatsinks versions shipped after 12-15-03 (see note 2)
Cooler Dimension: 89 x 78 x 59 mm
Its 89mm long, but this should work?
I'm new here!
thx dresnor for help people with this board!
I have just one question (yes i real all the thread!
I have this board too but i'm looking for a cooling system.
I want to buy the simplest way a P4 s478 because i have two retention bracket for this type of socket on my board!
can anyone give me a good p478 heatsink that i can use with this board?
i'm thinking about this one :
coolermaster 1
or this one ? :
thermaltake
THX in advance for ypur help!