***DISCLAIMER*** I have enjoyed my time with the game so far, but these are ultimately HUGE failures and signs that despite the server issues this game should NEVER have been released yet *******************************
WHO CARES ABOUT THE DAMN SERVERS, I have played the game for ~50 hrs and let me tell you at the CORE it is ROTTEN and BROKEN as a city simulation.
a) Only 10% of your workforce will actually WORK. 90% are retirees supposably. So you will ALWAYS have high demand for workers and everyone will complain that they are broke once you reach tier 3. Numerical density development of your town is F************** beyond low wealth initial starting where a more REASONABLE 66% of your population WORKS. b) 16 player maps CANNOT share between all 16 regions as you need to be connected by road/rail/water/etc. which are limited usually to only 3-4 other cities for each city meaning it isn’t a 16 player share fest asides from tech + research unlocks which don’t require roads c) mid-late game ALL services (fire/police/recycling/sewage/etc.) are ALL BROKEN. Once you build 2 x sewage plants, buildings will constantly get backed up sewage as it is simulated wrong, paying $10k/hr for those 4 x fire departments, and you’ll have buildings NEXT DOOR TO YOUR FIRE DEPARTMENT that they will NEVER RESPOND TO, and sit there saying “ready to respond”. d) If you don’t own the DLC you can’t reclaim other people’s cities that have that DLC e) Region trade/tourism/etc. is all SERVER SIDE and because the servers are terrible this means if they go down/you lose connection while playing… guess what you GET 0 TOURISTS for that month and your casino town is now BROKE. RESTART YOUR CITIES f) there is no undo button. No way to get cash back for incorrect placement of buildings g) layout maps are INCORRECT and do not correctly show you the placement for maximum density
TLDR: Don’t buy this game till the core mechanics are fixed. Yes it’s fun, but it is only fun to keep restarting cities and breaking the game by using supplying chain economics to offset the RIDICULOUS imposition of pathetic late game numerical FLAWS in the core of this game e.g. 10% workers, no working services etc.
This whole SimCity fiasco has convinced me to buy SimCity 4 Deluxe. Man I love that game. Especially the part where I can play it single player without worrying about EA servers or my Internet connection going down. May not look pretty, but who needs pretty for a City Simulator?
0
midga"There's so much hot dog in Rome" ~digi(> ^.(> O_o)>Icrontian
Don't get me wrong, I've still been enjoying the game, but the AI issues have made the late-game a bit disappointing to me. I'll be playing more, I'm not quitting outright, and I hope that we'll see fixes from Maxis. I am, however, seriously considering getting into modded SimCity 4 as I've been hearing a lot of good things about it.
I have reached a point on both the cities I claimed where I am having a hell of a time (nigh but impossible) to keep a positive money flow without turning off all the hospitals, fire stations, police stations, or schools. It just gets way too expensive to keep up with the population. In order for me to have enough hospitals to cover my ~300k people (800 sick at once) I need to spend something around 9k on the hospital. Pretty much 90% of all the taxes I get from residents at 11%. I know it is pollution based, but apparently I can't figure out how to get rid of pollution once it exists.
This doesn't take into consideration how hard it is to keep up with garbage. Once your population becomes educated they all but stop throwing stuff away, they always recycle, and I have to have three fully plopped recycling centers 2400 each just to break even. It hasn't even started to make a dent in the trash that was there before I plopped all of them down. Meanwhile my solo incinerator provide enough to remove 100% of the trash from the city.
PS. I want to know how the hell I am spending $10k/hour in city specialization when I count manually and can't find more than 2k.
And traffic is a joke to try to contend with after you get mostly middle class. If someone takes a look at the 2nd city I claimed (burlasdashdjklas hills or whatever) with the traffic on the highway to get into the city going off the map.
I was out of town when this whole SimCity fiasco unfurled, so I just got some time today to sit down and digest what's really going on. As I reached the end of my research, I've come to the conclusion that I will not be buying SimCity.
I've spent thousands of hours on the franchise, and I've patiently played Sim City 4 while I counted down the years for a new Sim City title. It is rare that I'm willing to pay full MSRP for a brand new game, but SimCity was one of the few titles on which I was prepared to bestow that honor... until today. The decisions EA and Maxis made for this entry are unconscionable, and I cannot forgive or excuse them, nor reward them with my dollars. We are paying to rent a broken game, we are being bribed with a free game to shut up about it[1], and its creators don't see anything intrinsically wrong with the hostile model they've developed.[2]
Maxis could have prevented this. They CHOSE not to prevent this. They CHOSE to abuse your good faith.[3] So we should be doubly irate for the hubris they've fleeced us with. As RockPaperShotgun eloquently said in their piece: "SimCity is inherently broken, let's not let this go."[4]
And, most insultingly of all, you are being LIED TO when the game is declared online-only because it can't be done any other way.[5]
I'm truly disappointed to see any gamer give their $60 to Maxis/EA. There's no reason why an inherently single-player game, or a loosely multiplayer game, like SimCity needs an always-on connection that could in any way jeopardize the playability of a game... but you just gave a $60 vote of confidence to that model. That's $60 of YOUR MONEY that will be used to ensure future games encounter this same problem. $60 of YOUR MONEY that will be used to ensure that you don't actually own future games.
We tore Ubisoft to shreds for always-on DRM, but we've given Maxis a pass? How pathetically apathetic we've become.
All this talk of SimCity made me remember how hard I loved SimTower.
I installed DOSBox, and it's now running on my Windows 7 PC alongside TF2. The game is 20 years old and I stayed up late last night building a 5-star hotel and loving every pixelated moment of it. You will never be revisiting this SimCity on Maxis servers in 2022, let alone 2032. It starts ticking away the moment you buy it.
Even Team Fortress 2, the very paragon of needing a server to play a video game and a game in which you EXPECT to require an Internet connection, lets you spin up your own server to play privately *and* gives you an offline mode for target practice. Maxis has gone down a road which I will not follow. @Thrax nailed it; entire system is bullshit, will not buy.
Like most folks, I am an old Sim City geek (from the original). I was genuinely looking forward to playing it. It is a shame that it is broken but not a surprise. None the less, off the purchase list. Yes, @thrax nailed it.
Seems to me like "online" was the creative design of the game. Even though its role is small, it is part of the game's balance. Why would Maxis re-engineer the game due to server problems? Instead they are actively working to improve everything around the server experience, to make the game achieve the vision they had for it.
***DISCLAIMER*** I have enjoyed my time with the game so far, but these are ultimately HUGE failures and signs that despite the server issues this game should NEVER have been released yet *******************************
WHO CARES ABOUT THE DAMN SERVERS, I have played the game for ~50 hrs and let me tell you at the CORE it is ROTTEN and BROKEN as a city simulation.
a) Only 10% of your workforce will actually WORK. 90% are retirees supposably. So you will ALWAYS have high demand for workers and everyone will complain that they are broke once you reach tier 3. Numerical density development of your town is F************** beyond low wealth initial starting where a more REASONABLE 66% of your population WORKS. b) 16 player maps CANNOT share between all 16 regions as you need to be connected by road/rail/water/etc. which are limited usually to only 3-4 other cities for each city meaning it isn’t a 16 player share fest asides from tech + research unlocks which don’t require roads c) mid-late game ALL services (fire/police/recycling/sewage/etc.) are ALL BROKEN. Once you build 2 x sewage plants, buildings will constantly get backed up sewage as it is simulated wrong, paying $10k/hr for those 4 x fire departments, and you’ll have buildings NEXT DOOR TO YOUR FIRE DEPARTMENT that they will NEVER RESPOND TO, and sit there saying “ready to respond”. d) If you don’t own the DLC you can’t reclaim other people’s cities that have that DLC e) Region trade/tourism/etc. is all SERVER SIDE and because the servers are terrible this means if they go down/you lose connection while playing… guess what you GET 0 TOURISTS for that month and your casino town is now BROKE. RESTART YOUR CITIES f) there is no undo button. No way to get cash back for incorrect placement of buildings g) layout maps are INCORRECT and do not correctly show you the placement for maximum density
TLDR: Don’t buy this game till the core mechanics are fixed. Yes it’s fun, but it is only fun to keep restarting cities and breaking the game by using supplying chain economics to offset the RIDICULOUS imposition of pathetic late game numerical FLAWS in the core of this game e.g. 10% workers, no working services etc.
I've experienced a few of these. Also there is a bug with streetcars I read about on Twitter, which might explain why my streetcars started going empty with passenger wait times over an hour.
My Icrontic Woods city is mostly maxed out for now, so I probably won't play it much until these late game issues get fixed.
Honestly guys, It's just a video game. You play the way they designed the game, or, if you don't like it, don't play it.
Your rights are not being stepped on, your botcott will not change the industry, and your preaching just sounds like whining.
It's a video game, and, now that it's working. It's actually a pretty fun video game. Is it a perfect sequel? No. Am I going to get my $60 worth of entertainment out of it? Yes. Even if the servers only last a year, I'll still get plenty of play out of that Sixty bucks. I've already played it longer than some other $60 games that turned out to not actually be enjoyable to engage with.
If this was something more important, like if it was endangering people's lives or taking away their freedoms, fine, get indignant, that's worth your effort. But this?
It's a video game. If you don't think it's worth your money because whatever, then don't buy it, but get off your high-horse, and quit preaching about it as if you had been personally wronged.
This all reminds me of when Spore came out after much acclaim and hype only to fall flat on it's face due to many of the same issues affecting SimCity. I'm saving my money for ICSP instead.
I think both of you are right to be quite honest. CB is correct in the fact that it is their game and they can do whatever they please about it. If they wish to make it 60$, they can do that. However, if the "product" does not work properly the consumers can take action for that is in their rights as a consumer. I was going to say they would have to refund most of the people that wanted them but apparently anyone who bought it digitally cannot get refunds, bad call EA. To make my point across Thrax and many others have the right to make a complaint. Lastly the only way EA or any other company to work better with gamers is if they communicate more before the product is distributed among everyone and the only way to do that is for the consumers to speak up. So, I will have to disagree with your comment that “whining” or boycotting will make no difference.
Honestly guys, It's just a video game. You play the way they designed the game, or, if you don't like it, don't play it.
Your rights are not being stepped on, your botcott will not change the industry, and your preaching just sounds like whining.
Can say with the utmost of confidence as one working in the industry that the effects of this always-online DRM and people voting with their dollars absolutely has, without the shadow of a doubt, a massive impact on videogames present and future. And considering how many people are willing to buy SimCity with this preposterous requirement just teaches companies that this is the proper route to take. This tells the publisher that this is how you defeat pirates, this is how you distribute content, and this is how you turn a profit. This is but the tip of the iceberg. Games as a service is the new reality, and it's only going to get worse.
The fact that a vast majority of my twitter feed on launch day were paying customers who were being denied access to a product they paid $60 for and were ultimately OK with that terrifies me.
Boycotting customers managed to change Ubisoft's mind with their approach to DRM. We should all be doing the same for SimCity if we care at all about properly enjoying our past time in the future.
I think essentially @CB, without meaning to hurt any feelings, was just commenting thousands of people get up in arms over something that to him is not so important when there are other things going on in this world that really deserve the attention more or other situations where you spend more money and get way way less than what EA is giving.
Oh, I think that's quite a bit different than "get off your high-horse, and quit preaching about it as if you had been personally wronged."
I don't appreciate being lied to or bribed, and I fundamentally disagree with licensing the privilege to play a game that could be taken away from me at any moment. Some people are comfortable paying $60 for that, but not this guy.
The way SimCity is online only doesn't bother me. For one thing, it's tolerant of temporary network outages (apparently Ubisoft's games weren't).
Design and intent are important. I would be put off by a game that disguises someone's DRM requirement into a tacked-on online "feature" that, too bad guys, requires the game to be always online. Or if it was outright single player only with connection required. But I respect the developer who says, I have limited resources, I'm going to make deeper gameplay in my online-enabled game, instead of making an offline mode. Playing SimCity, it feels more like the latter, so I don't think I've been lied to.
P.S. Suggest starting the next game boycott before the game comes out
Its tolerance of network outages is proof positive that a 24/7 connection isn't required. If the game can happily perform city simulations with no feedback from the mothership for 10 consecutive minutes, then there's no reason why it couldn't do it for 10 hours.
//EDIT: And there's no reason why the simulation couldn't be run locally, or P2P amongst users. Games have been synchronizing client simulations for years. Any online game you have ever played. Including ones with advanced physics simulations that would probably blow SC5 away.
@CB: That is, of course, your opinion. But I think we can all extend the common courtesy to not insult others for feeling the way that they do.
I'm not intending to insult. I didn't call anyone out specifically. I don't think that calling one position a 'high-horse' is particularly insulting. At least no more than telling people that you are disappointed in them for their position.
I simply think the issue has been blown out of proportion by many, and those expressing their opinions here are not the worst of them, by far. I'm seeing it in all quarters, and feel like I'm being called a traitor to gaming kind for having fun with a new game. I don't like to be made to feel bad for a video game purchase. It's just a video game.
1
midga"There's so much hot dog in Rome" ~digi(> ^.(> O_o)>Icrontian
Don't feel bad. I don't feel bad. I also don't buy other new EA titles because reasons. Regardless, I got SC because I thought it would be fun with friends. Hopefully this will help there to be another SC, and maybe the massive backlash will help us get a better product. And it may not. People are inflammatory on the interwebbytubes; that's not going to change.
Comments
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/11/simcity-is-inherently-broken-lets-not-let-this-go/
I've been having fun.
This doesn't take into consideration how hard it is to keep up with garbage. Once your population becomes educated they all but stop throwing stuff away, they always recycle, and I have to have three fully plopped recycling centers 2400 each just to break even. It hasn't even started to make a dent in the trash that was there before I plopped all of them down. Meanwhile my solo incinerator provide enough to remove 100% of the trash from the city.
PS. I want to know how the hell I am spending $10k/hour in city specialization when I count manually and can't find more than 2k.
And traffic is a joke to try to contend with after you get mostly middle class. If someone takes a look at the 2nd city I claimed (burlasdashdjklas hills or whatever) with the traffic on the highway to get into the city going off the map.
Get out.
I've spent thousands of hours on the franchise, and I've patiently played Sim City 4 while I counted down the years for a new Sim City title. It is rare that I'm willing to pay full MSRP for a brand new game, but SimCity was one of the few titles on which I was prepared to bestow that honor... until today. The decisions EA and Maxis made for this entry are unconscionable, and I cannot forgive or excuse them, nor reward them with my dollars. We are paying to rent a broken game, we are being bribed with a free game to shut up about it[1], and its creators don't see anything intrinsically wrong with the hostile model they've developed.[2]
Maxis could have prevented this. They CHOSE not to prevent this. They CHOSE to abuse your good faith.[3] So we should be doubly irate for the hubris they've fleeced us with. As RockPaperShotgun eloquently said in their piece: "SimCity is inherently broken, let's not let this go."[4]
And, most insultingly of all, you are being LIED TO when the game is declared online-only because it can't be done any other way.[5]
I'm truly disappointed to see any gamer give their $60 to Maxis/EA. There's no reason why an inherently single-player game, or a loosely multiplayer game, like SimCity needs an always-on connection that could in any way jeopardize the playability of a game... but you just gave a $60 vote of confidence to that model. That's $60 of YOUR MONEY that will be used to ensure future games encounter this same problem. $60 of YOUR MONEY that will be used to ensure that you don't actually own future games.
We tore Ubisoft to shreds for always-on DRM, but we've given Maxis a pass? How pathetically apathetic we've become.
[1] http://bit.ly/WEkQX3
[2] http://bit.ly/WEkO1p
[3] http://bit.ly/13RZSWZ
[4] http://bit.ly/Y69PZK
[5] http://bit.ly/Y5d1Id
//EDIT: Added sources to make my point.
I installed DOSBox, and it's now running on my Windows 7 PC alongside TF2. The game is 20 years old and I stayed up late last night building a 5-star hotel and loving every pixelated moment of it. You will never be revisiting this SimCity on Maxis servers in 2022, let alone 2032. It starts ticking away the moment you buy it.
Even Team Fortress 2, the very paragon of needing a server to play a video game and a game in which you EXPECT to require an Internet connection, lets you spin up your own server to play privately *and* gives you an offline mode for target practice. Maxis has gone down a road which I will not follow. @Thrax nailed it; entire system is bullshit, will not buy.
My Icrontic Woods city is mostly maxed out for now, so I probably won't play it much until these late game issues get fixed.
Your rights are not being stepped on, your botcott will not change the industry, and your preaching just sounds like whining.
It's a video game, and, now that it's working. It's actually a pretty fun video game. Is it a perfect sequel? No. Am I going to get my $60 worth of entertainment out of it? Yes. Even if the servers only last a year, I'll still get plenty of play out of that Sixty bucks. I've already played it longer than some other $60 games that turned out to not actually be enjoyable to engage with.
If this was something more important, like if it was endangering people's lives or taking away their freedoms, fine, get indignant, that's worth your effort. But this?
It's a video game. If you don't think it's worth your money because whatever, then don't buy it, but get off your high-horse, and quit preaching about it as if you had been personally wronged.
The fact that a vast majority of my twitter feed on launch day were paying customers who were being denied access to a product they paid $60 for and were ultimately OK with that terrifies me.
Boycotting customers managed to change Ubisoft's mind with their approach to DRM. We should all be doing the same for SimCity if we care at all about properly enjoying our past time in the future.
#BMS
I don't appreciate being lied to or bribed, and I fundamentally disagree with licensing the privilege to play a game that could be taken away from me at any moment. Some people are comfortable paying $60 for that, but not this guy.
Design and intent are important. I would be put off by a game that disguises someone's DRM requirement into a tacked-on online "feature" that, too bad guys, requires the game to be always online. Or if it was outright single player only with connection required. But I respect the developer who says, I have limited resources, I'm going to make deeper gameplay in my online-enabled game, instead of making an offline mode. Playing SimCity, it feels more like the latter, so I don't think I've been lied to.
P.S. Suggest starting the next game boycott before the game comes out
//EDIT: And there's no reason why the simulation couldn't be run locally, or P2P amongst users. Games have been synchronizing client simulations for years. Any online game you have ever played. Including ones with advanced physics simulations that would probably blow SC5 away.
I simply think the issue has been blown out of proportion by many, and those expressing their opinions here are not the worst of them, by far. I'm seeing it in all quarters, and feel like I'm being called a traitor to gaming kind for having fun with a new game. I don't like to be made to feel bad for a video game purchase. It's just a video game.
People are inflammatory on the interwebbytubes; that's not going to change.