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A rant on breakfast in California

A rant on breakfast in California

Jokke and Prag enjoy a super cheap Michigan breakfast at Red Apple

Jokke and Prag enjoy a super cheap Michigan breakfast at Red Apple

There’s little doubt that Icrontians love to eat. Every year at Expo Icrontic, one of the most popular events is the food tour. Just as important to many of us is the ritual of picking up breakfast together. Places like Original Pancake House, Ron’s Cafe, and My Mother’s Place have been feeding Icrontians a great breakfast and offered socializing with a small group for years. Little did I know how spoiled I had become.

Earlier this year I moved to Southern California from Ohio. California’s cost of living is the stuff of legends, and folks back home are constantly asking me about it. Housing, yes, definitely more expensive. Food and gas, generally only a bit more expensive than I was used to. One thing that surprised me, however, was the cost of a restaurant breakfast in Southern California.

During any given day of the week, one can take a quick walk from Icrontic HQ to Ron’s Cafe and get a full breakfast, including a combo meal with eggs, hash browns, meat, and coffee or glass of juice, for less than $5. The most Ron’s-like of our local restaurants would charge over ten dollars for the same amount of food, plus the cost of coffee. A stack of pancakes alone will set you back eight dollars.

I’ve tried to analyze this problem from a business perspective. Is it the higher cost of real estate that causes the restaurant prices to be so much higher? Well sure, that makes sense. Rent on a decent one-bedroom apartment out here is over $1000 per month–commercial rents must be similarly scaled up. Why, then, do lunch and dinner prices not suffer the same fate as breakfast prices? A lunch combo at an average restaurant here costs about the same as it does in the Midwest. In fact, many lunch prices are significantly lower than the prices of breakfast!

While delicious, this breakfast set me back $12 without coffee.

While delicious, this breakfast set me back $12 without coffee.

Chains aren’t immune to the price inflation on breakfasts, either. While a Chipotle Burrito costs the same $6 or so in SoCal as I paid in Ohio, breakfast parity is rare. I stopped at IHOP, expecting a reasonable $6 to $7, since it’s a national chain. Alas, it was not to be. An omelet, three simple eggs with some veggies cooked inside, costs an astounding $13 at IHOP in Southern California. Add coffee and tip, and a breakfast that would cost under ten dollars back in the Midwest is almost double here.

Another solution that occurred to me is that staple breakfast foods simply cost more relative to lunch or dinner staples. I checked the grocer. Bread is still about $2.50 for a loaf of 100% whole wheat, exactly what I paid in Ohio. Milk can be had for about $2 per gallon. Eggs are about $1.50 per dozen on sale (and they’re always on sale somewhere). With prices that close to the Midwest, I can’t imagine a huge markup being necessary.

In the end, the best explanation I could find came from asking the locals. “Breakfast just isn’t a priority here, so you pay more if you want to go out to eat it,” one local said. While that may be the case, it’s a sad shame that the price of a good restaurant breakfast is doubled because of it.

What does a hearty breakfast cost in your neck of the woods? What should a good breakfast cost? Any ideas why it might be so inflated here in Southern California? Sound off in the comments!

Comments

  1. Thrax
    Thrax My eggs are 89 cents a dozen, not on sale. D:
  2. ardichoke
    ardichoke I'm sitting here pondering the conundrum and can't help but think about the whole breakfast not being a priority thing. I was never a very good economist, but shouldn't an abundant supply plus a lower demand equal lower prices not higher? I mean, having higher prices would only serve to cut demand by making the product less accessible whereas having a lower price would make it more accessible and potentially raise demand.
  3. Cliff_Forster
    Cliff_Forster http://www.urbanspoon.com/f/31/3019/Baltimore/Diners

    Baltimore is the cheap Diner capital of the known universe. Its not $5 cheap to eat here because we too have a ridiculous cost of living, but I feel like I get value for a plate in most these places. Typically $8 will get you something decent, and for $10 you can just skip lunch you will be that full.
  4. ardichoke
    ardichoke There's a chain of restaurants in my home town where you can get a crazy value on breakfast. Their sides of bacon cost about 3 bucks but they give you a pound. You can pretty much order one breakfast and split it between two people there. Crazy huge portions. I love it.
  5. Snarkasm
    Snarkasm You could think of it that way, ardi, or you could consider it from a different angle: if breakfast isn't a priority to most people, the fact that restaurants have to stock it at all justifies a higher price. It doesn't explain something like IHOP, to be sure, but if breakfast can be thought of as a "niche product" where GH lives, higher prices can be justified.
  6. GHoosdum
    GHoosdum
    ardichoke wrote:
    I'm sitting here pondering the conundrum and can't help but think about the whole breakfast not being a priority thing. I was never a very good economist, but shouldn't an abundant supply plus a lower demand equal lower prices not higher? I mean, having higher prices would only serve to cut demand by making the product less accessible whereas having a lower price would make it more accessible and potentially raise demand.

    Good point, and I originally thought of it that way as well. Then I realized, while there are 3 independent diners within a mile of ICHQ, there is only one that I know of in the entire town of Orange, CA. The supply is lower than the demand.

    //edit: What Snark said. ;)
  7. UPSLynx
    UPSLynx In Indiana, Breakfast diners offer the same prices/delcious that Ron's and probably the joints in Ohio do. Cheap. Wonderful. ...but I never take advantage of it unless we've been drinking and singing karaoke until the bartender kicks us out :(

    You know Ghoosdum, I've eaten at Denny's every time I've been to LA. The one smack in the middle of downtown near the staples center is my favorite. Prices there are very close, if not the same, as they are here in Indiana. During SIGGRAPH we ate there almost daily because it was the only reasonably price place around. And with all this, eating in SoCal was still cheaper than eating in New Orleans.

    Denny's is still not Ron's cheap, but it got the job done.

    'mom and pop' diners have never struck me as West Coast type of places.
  8. NiGHTS
    NiGHTS
    UPSLynx wrote:
    'mom and pop' diners have never struck me as West Coast type of places.


    They're here, you have to look for them, but they're here. While I'm not a breakfast kinda guy, there are a few truckstop-esque family diners in the area as well as a few beachside nooks that have ~$5-8 breakfasts.

    More than anything, I'd blame it on the fact that a typical Californian is willing to pay those prices in places like Los Angeles, Orange, Ventura, San Diego, etc. county.
  9. primesuspect
    primesuspect The closest I found to a diner was the Original Pantry in downtown on Figueroa. It wasn't as cheap as I'm used to, but their hearts are in the right places :D
  10. Butters
    Butters I can confirm this. CA is not cheap. Even roach coaches don't offer the same amount of value you'd expect over fast food or a sit down place. I guess I'm used to expecting to pay around $25 for 2.
  11. GHoosdum
    GHoosdum The Original Pantry was good. Kind of a greasy spoon type of place. Lunch and dinner prices were cheap, breakfast was cheaper than most places but not midwest cheap.

    I actually bought the groceries to make eggs, waffles, and bacon for all of us that went to E3 for cheaper than it would have been for one person to go out to breakfast.
  12. Cliff_Forster
    Cliff_Forster So in conclusion having more options as a consumer is a good thing? ;*)
  13. Butters
    Butters Yes. Having 50 choices instead of 30 choices will solve CA's drought and water problem, lower fuel and corn prices, lower portion sizes so that a meal is 800 calories instead of 3000, and most importantly make a $10 meal a $4.50 meal.
  14. Snarkasm
    Snarkasm Your sarcasm is palpable and delicious.
  15. Thrax
    Thrax I second this motion.
  16. pseudonym
    pseudonym My energy drink breakfasts cost me about $2.50!

    /is not an addict....
  17. Jason
    Jason Between California, Michigan and Oregon, Portland has the best breakfasts, hands down. Except for pancakes, that is. The best pancakes I've ever had were from Paula's in Santa Cruz, CA.

    Michigan definitely has the cheapest breakfasts, but Portland has great food in the $6-12 range, no sales tax and damn fine coffee.
  18. McBain
    McBain Go to surfer shacks in the OC....San Clemente has got some REDICULOUS breakfast burrito places for like 4 bucks...
  19. primesuspect
  20. Kwitko
    Kwitko I prefer BURNTUMBERICULOUS breakfast burritos myself.
  21. Jason
    Jason Rereading the OP, I think most of the difference has to do with wages.

    In Michigan and Ohio, for example, things are much cheaper. Additionally, in places like Michigan and Ohio, restaurants don't have to pay their waitstaff minimum wage because they get tips. Lower overhead equals cheaper breakfasts. (The current minimum wage in Michigan is $7.40, but for servers it's $2.65. In Ohio the minimum is $7.30, but for servers it's $3.50.)

    In places like California and Oregon, on the other hand, the cost of living is a little higher. Not only that, but in both California and Oregon, restaurants are required to pay their servers minimum wage. Higher overhead equals more expensive breakfasts. (The minimum wage in California is currently $8.00. In Oregon it's $8.40.)

    As a side note, I made more per hour at the Bagelry in Santa Cruz, California, than I did at any of the factory jobs I had in Michigan.
  22. Thrax
    Thrax But it's all relative.
  23. Snarkasm
    Snarkasm Not to mention that a higher cost of living and minimum wage wouldn't affect breakfast exclusively as compared to lunches and dinners, which the OP notes are roughly equivalent.
  24. Jason
    Jason
    Snarkasm wrote:
    Not to mention that a higher cost of living and minimum wage wouldn't affect breakfast exclusively as compared to lunches and dinners, which the OP notes are roughly equivalent.

    That's true, but the combination of higher living costs, a higher minimum wage and the possibility that breakfast isn’t a priority in southern California could explain the inflated prices.

    That or all of southern California is pulling off one hell of a scam on breakfast goers and skimming off the top.
  25. rolleggroll
    rolleggroll I think the price of breakfast is fine. I think that everyone is paying too little for breakfast.
  26. UPSLynx
    UPSLynx You couldn't resist.
  27. primesuspect
    primesuspect Eggroll, keebs and I need an asian sugar daddy.

    We'll take care of you, we promise. Come feed us.
  28. Cliff_Forster
    Cliff_Forster Thinking about all this, how hard would it be to open a breakfast joint?

    A unique place with an Icrontic theme?
  29. Thrax
    Thrax You sign for the loan, and we'll take care of the rest.
  30. Cliff_Forster
    Cliff_Forster
    Thrax wrote:
    You sign for the loan, and we'll take care of the rest.

    If your cooking it will be all healthy stuff, and lets face it, nobody wants that.

    Seriously, what will he eat?? :approve:

    Now, I specialize in redneck breakfast, grits, sausage gravy, biscuits, that's what the good people want.
  31. Thrax
    Thrax My inner fat kid needs a motorized device to get around.
  32. Cliff_Forster
    Cliff_Forster So, we need to rent some space, need some theme stuff, probably arcade games, hmmmm, maybe that's the theme, maybe we buy a bunch of those old school game cocktail tables and serve breakfast right on them?

    Sadly, I have more ideas than investment capital.
  33. Jason
    Jason
    So, we need to rent some space, need some theme stuff, probably arcade games, hmmmm, maybe that's the theme, maybe we buy a bunch of those old school game cocktail tables and serve breakfast right on them?

    That's a great idea.
    Sadly, I have more ideas than investment capital.

    Unfortunately, I think most of us have the same problem. :D
  34. Jason
    Jason
    Now, I specialize in redneck breakfast, grits, sausage gravy, biscuits, that's what the good people want.

    Mmm, grits. And don't forget the corn bread!
  35. Zuntar
    Zuntar Last February when I took my family to IHOP the bill plus 20% tip was $56.00 for two adults and three kids. I was shocked at the cost. With that said I can go down to a small local dinner here in the greater Raleigh area and get a nice breakfast for about $6.50.
  36. ardichoke
    ardichoke That would be because IHOP = International House of OVER PRICED.

    Seriously though, IHOP is crazy expensive, not that it stops me from eating there when I find myself in East Lansing at f-o'clock in the morning.
  37. Thrax
    Thrax Absurd o'clock calls for Denny's or a coney.
  38. UPSLynx
    UPSLynx absurd o'clock calls for White Castle, which I understand does not exist in California.

    Which I would consider to be one of the greatest drawbacks to living there.
  39. CrazyJoe
    CrazyJoe Well since GHoosdum is a vegetarian I doubt he minds the lack of White Castle very much...
  40. NiGHTS
    NiGHTS In-and-Out > White Castle.

    There, I said it.
  41. UPSLynx
    UPSLynx Ok, fine, correct statement NiGHTS.

    Also, I approve of the new avatar.
  42. rolleggroll
    rolleggroll
    UPSLynx wrote:
    absurd o'clock calls for White Castle, which I understand does not exist in California.

    Which I would consider to be one of the greatest drawbacks to living there.

    Nights beat me to it. I dont even understand why everyone loves In-N-Out so much, but i can eat there anytime. so suck it.

    Also if an icrontic diner were to be i would totally love to work in the kitchen.
  43. Jason
    Jason
    NiGHTS wrote:
    In-and-Out > White Castle.

    There, I said it.

    Animal style.
  44. primesuspect
    primesuspect I agree, and I love White Castle.
  45. ardichoke
    ardichoke
    Thrax wrote:
    Absurd o'clock calls for Denny's or a coney.
    Yeah, see, Denny's is on my way home from work thus is frequented at least once a week post work. IHOP is an only when I'm in East Lansing (read: maybe once every couple months) kinda thing.
  46. McBain
    McBain Coney's don't exist in Cali. It makes me sad.
  47. Kwitko
    Kwitko Coneys don't exist in New York. It makes me happy.
  48. GHoosdum
    GHoosdum
    Jason wrote:
    Rereading the OP, I think most of the difference has to do with wages.

    In Michigan and Ohio, for example, things are much cheaper. Additionally, in places like Michigan and Ohio, restaurants don't have to pay their waitstaff minimum wage because they get tips. Lower overhead equals cheaper breakfasts. (The current minimum wage in Michigan is $7.40, but for servers it's $2.65. In Ohio the minimum is $7.30, but for servers it's $3.50.)

    In places like California and Oregon, on the other hand, the cost of living is a little higher. Not only that, but in both California and Oregon, restaurants are required to pay their servers minimum wage. Higher overhead equals more expensive breakfasts. (The minimum wage in California is currently $8.00. In Oregon it's $8.40.)

    As a side note, I made more per hour at the Bagelry in Santa Cruz, California, than I did at any of the factory jobs I had in Michigan.

    That's interesting - I had no idea that servers were required to be paid minimum wage in Cali. In my opinion, that's a good thing.
  49. CB
    CB
    GHoosdum wrote:
    That's interesting - I had no idea that servers were required to be paid minimum wage in Cali. In my opinion, that's a good thing.

    Yeah, it means you don't have to tip.
  50. ardichoke
    ardichoke
    CB wrote:
    Yeah, it means you don't have to tip.
    You should still tip good service. Pizza delivery drivers get paid the real minimum wage everywhere and you're supposed to tip them.
  51. CB
    CB
    ardichoke wrote:
    You should still tip good service. Pizza delivery drivers get paid the real minimum wage everywhere and you're supposed to tip them.

    Sure, good service, but not normal, or even bad service, which still gets tips everywhere else.
  52. ardichoke
    ardichoke
    CB wrote:
    Sure, good service, but not normal, or even bad service, which still gets tips everywhere else.
    Bad service... and I emphasize bad... doesn't get tips from me regardless. Normal service does, even in places where the waitresses get paid the real minimum wage. Mostly because I've been friends with many people who worked as wait staff in my day. They put up with a lot of crap and even 7 bucks an hour is hard to live off of. Not to mention the fact that the places where they get paid the higher wage are usually in areas with an absurdly high cost of living.
  53. Cliff_Forster
    Cliff_Forster
    ardichoke wrote:
    Bad service... and I emphasize bad... doesn't get tips from me regardless. Normal service does, even in places where the waitresses get paid the real minimum wage. Mostly because I've been friends with many people who worked as wait staff in my day. They put up with a lot of crap and even 7 bucks an hour is hard to live off of. Not to mention the fact that the places where they get paid the higher wage are usually in areas with an absurdly high cost of living.

    To quote Live's song Waitress from Throwing Copper (my tipping policy)

    come on baby leave some change behind
    she was a bitch, but I don't care
    she brought our food out on time
    and wore a funky barrette in her hair
    .
    come on baby leave some change behind
    she was a bitch but good enough
    to leave some change,
    everybody's good enough for some change
    .
    the girl's got family
    she needs cash to buy aspirin for her pain,
    everybody's good enough for some change
    .
    we all get the flu,
    we all get aids
    we've got to stick together after all,
    everybody's good enough for some change,
    SOME FUCKING CHANGE!!!
  54. ardichoke
    ardichoke
    To quote Live's song Waitress from Throwing Copper (my tipping policy)

    come on baby leave some change behind
    she was a bitch, but I don't care
    she brought our food out on time
    and wore a funky barrette in her hair
    .
    come on baby leave some change behind
    she was a bitch but good enough
    to leave some change,
    everybody's good enough for some change
    .
    the girl's got family
    she needs cash to buy aspirin for her pain,
    everybody's good enough for some change
    .
    we all get the flu,
    we all get aids
    we've got to stick together after all,
    everybody's good enough for some change,
    SOME FUCKING CHANGE!!!

    Try saying this when you have a waitress in a diner that is practically empty who takes 20 minutes to even take your order, another half hour to get your food out and refills your water/coffee/soda twice in the 2-3 hours that you are sitting there with a couple of your friends. All this at a restaurant where all the other waitresses you've ever had have got have never taken longer than 30 minutes total to get your order and get your food out even on the busiest of nights, not to mention bringing a pitcher or water or a carafe of coffee for the table if needed. When I say BAD service I mean atrociously bad service and I usually mean repeatedly bad service (this particular waitress waited on us 3 or 4 different times we were there, every time the service was just as horrid, the first time we tipped her but very little, by the 3rd or 4th time we didn't leave her anything the other waitresses had even commented to use about how bad she was and they were sorry we were in her section.)
  55. GHoosdum
    GHoosdum I always figure it this way, the difference between a 15% and 25% tip is only a couple bucks out of my pocket, but it means something to them, so if I got good service I'll tip on the high side.
  56. ardichoke
    ardichoke
    GHoosdum wrote:
    I always figure it this way, the difference between a 15% and 25% tip is only a couple bucks out of my pocket, but it means something to them, so if I got good service I'll tip on the high side.
    I absolutely agree with this. In fact I usually tip closer to 20% even for standard service. Maybe this is why I tend to get really good service at most of the restaurants I go to on a regular basis, with the exception of that one waitress at the one restaurant (who no longer works there anyway).
  57. CB
    CB To make it easy, I calculate the tip using the sales tax amount.
    Bad service, tip = tax*0
    Mediocre service, tip = tax*1
    Good service, tip = tax*2
    Exceptional service, tip = tax*3

    count the multiplier one less at a buffet.

    Of course that only really works because the sales tax in Ohio and Kentucky (the two states I normally go to restaurants within), are both around 7%. If I was in New York, I'd go broke doing that.
  58. Thrax
    Thrax If my drink is full and I get my food on time, I tip 15%. I can count on one hand the number of times I've shorted the tip. If the service is exceptional or the waitstaff is particularly humorous, I've tipped up to 30%.
  59. Cliff_Forster
    Cliff_Forster
    Thrax wrote:
    If my drink is full and I get my food on time, I tip 15%. I can count on one hand the number of times I've shorted the tip. If the service is exceptional or the waitstaff is particularly humorous, I've tipped up to 30%.

    Also, the percentage can be a little unfair in greesy spoon type places. If my wife and I spend $50 on a meal, $8 is decent tip at just over 15%.

    We go to the local Diner and spend $20 a $3 tip kind of sucks. Just because the food costs less does not mean thier service was any less valuable, In an inexpensive resteraunt I would generaly ecourage people to go closer to 25% or even 30% in some cases as Thrax suggested.

    I know a waitress. I was having a conversation with her recently, beautiful girl, nice, I can't imagine people are displeased with her. She says with the econmic decline its a double whammy because not only do people go out less, they also short the tips. She says she will work a $100 table sometimes to see $2 and loose change left behind, for which she should be able to walk back out, find them and break their nose.

    If your going to eat out, you owe the server a fair tip, otherwise, cook your own damn eggs.
  60. fmueller
    fmueller Back to the subject of food in OH and CA. Yeah, you can get great breakfast in OH for next to nothing, but try to find a restaurant in my area that serves anything - breakfast or no - that is not deep fried and dripping in fat, and you're in real trouble. I've been to CA only a couple of times, but I know a lot of people there, and at least you can get some good restaurant food, even if you might have to pay for it. I don't go out much anymore, but I do like cooking :)

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