the MSI board in question is DDR2 and pcie. (MSI 945 Neo-F) I've got an old pci card that will work fine for graphics.
I could only do 166fsb prime stable, any more required bumping the vcore and the temps were climbing to high. (60c+ under load as measured by Asus pc probe)
As far as stability, I would suspect both the board and your psu. The board was a budget board and I don't feel the power regulation is up to the task. As far as your psu, that thing has got to be working hard trying to feed that beast. I had tried a Thermaltake 420w psu (18a on the 12v rail) thinking that maybe my e-power psu didn't have enough oomph (it's rated 28a on the 12v) The 12v on the Thermaltake was reading 11.6-11.7 under load. ( it reads 12.01 on a dual-proc Opteron rig, under load). I'm not saying get rid of your psu, just keep an eye on it. After all a good 350w is better than some of the cheap 500w, your proof of that.
You might want to check-out Leo's thread on overclocking the 820. there is a lot of good info in there, especially regarding these Dual-core Intels. D820 Dual Core Overclocking
the MSI board in question is DDR2 and pcie. (MSI 945 Neo-F) I've got an old pci card that will work fine for graphics.
OK, I see.
I would like to stay with DDR and AGP for the time being.
Difficult to find a good stable s775 MoBo that supports DDR+AGP+D805 cpu ( and even better also PCie for later graphics upgrade).
Asus P5VD1-X with VIA PT880Ultra chipset is the only one I found so far that support all these options, but then again, the OC potenial may be worse.
Maybe I´ll try it out anyway.
I forgot to mention it earlier, Welcome to Short-Media.
Thanks.....
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited April 2006
Quite a bit to respond to here. Johansson, according to what you've written:
- you probably did damage your motherboard
- those vCore fluctuations are ue more to the motherboard than the PSU, especially if the 12V line is consistent
- I've used MSI 945P Neo-F, Asus P5PL2, Asus P5LD2, and Asus P5WD2 and P5WD2 Premium motherboards for Smithfield overclocking and have never seen as poor vCore stability as what you are reporting.
If you are interested in a new motherboard for Smithfield or Pressler core CPUs, it just doesn't make sense to look for an AGP-DDR board. Sorry, but the future is definitely PCIe and DDR2. No way getting around it. If you need a temporary solution, I suggest you go on eBay and find a Quadro NVS 280/285 video card. You can find these in PCIe, PCI, and AGP formats, all very inexpensive. No, you won't want to game with them, but their 2D quality is superb, and they do play movies without a problem. Unless you try high-FPS applications, you wouldn't know that you aren't running a several hundred dollar video card.
I really recommend you do not go with a compromise solution like the Asus P5VD1-X. Just keep using what you've got, save your money, and get a dedicated DDR2-PCIe board. You will also want to upgrade your PSU. No matter the quality, a 350 watt unit is just not designed for dual core overclocking and PCIe. You need more power.
Leonardo,
Thanks for taking time to reply and you are ofcourse right in all what you´re saying about the future with DDR2 and PCIe.
But the thing is that I´m having some DDR RAM and AGP cards left overs, which I´m trying to build a cheap dual core / multitasking "office system" from.
D805 cpu is the only dual core cpu that I find possible to fit this low budget system and therefore I´m building a system based on that cpu with DDR and AGP.
Matter of fact, I was quite happy running the D805@3.6Ghz at 1.425vcore and benching superPi at 36sec /1M with the P5P800SE mobo before I crossed line with to much vcore and pressure on the mosfets, too anxious to reach 3.8Ghz.
The only thing that dissapointed me about the P5P800SE is that servere 0,2%vcore fluctation even at low OC and stock speed which is the only reason not to get another one of this mobo´s.
The D805 itself seems like a good OC chips, since it´manage to stay dual-prime-stable at 3.3 - 3.6Ghz, even with bad vcore flucation down to 1.20v as lowest.
However, I may have to realize that these cheap combo-mobo´s are not made for overclocking, even though I can´t stay away from trying.
Maybe the P5VD1-X mobo with VIA PT880Ultra chipset will solve that problem.
Even if it´s a very flexible mobo with support for D805 ( 533/800/1066mhz cpu´s ) + DDR + AGP + PCIe I don´t think there are too much biosoptions for OC.
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited April 2006
Matter of fact, I was quite happy running the D805@3.6Ghz
Considering that's nearly 1000MHz above default, I'd be pretty happy too...until the motherboard melted!
D 805 cpu booted fine after biosupdate.
However, no surprise regarding OC capability. Even though ASUS specify "CPU voltage adjustable" on the website specification http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=584&l1=3&l2=11&l3=206
ASUS C.P.R.(CPU Parameter Recall)
CPU voltage adjustable
SFS (Stepless Frequency Selection) from 133MHz up to 400MHz at 1MHz increment
Adjustable FSB/DDR ratio. Fixed AGP8X/PCI or PCI/PCIe frequencies.
there were none to find in bios ( no vcore or vdimm) and no OC software that followed either.
I was only able to run at 3.12Ghz at stock vcore.
Running prime at that speed, I could read about 0.15v fluctation and just to be sure that not the HEC 350w PSU 18amp/12v was the culprit, I invested in a Tagan 580w with 2x20amp or 35amp with combined 12v lines ( needed that anyway ).
The fluctation went down to some 0.10v, but these cheap combo-mobo´s does not have the best stability as we all now and did not affect the OC capability in either way.
So now I´ve got a working flexible combo mobo, but without possiblity to really squeeze the potenital from the D805 cpu.
I just got a P5P800SE and intend on buying a D805 for overclocking. With your vast experience I just have to ask....
I have some small memory chip copper heat sinks I could mod for mosfets etc.
Which or where are the mosfets located that I should be concerned with and posibly put a heatsink on?
I might swap out the ASUS passive northbridge too for a solid copper sink with Silenex fan. Just a thought.
Also... you seemed to build and bench your P5P800SE outside of the case. What surface can I use to do this? Right now I have to go through the trouble of installing everything into the case..then pray I don't have to dis-assemble.
I plan on putting the massive Scythe Ninja heatsink with a 120mm silentfan on the D805 Puting that into and pulling that out of a case can be a real PITA !
Just looking at a pic a got from newegg of the board, I see around 13 or so mosfets that probably would be good to "sink". I circled the places where they are at on the mobo.
EDIT: Be aware that the one near the AGP slot might be impossible to "sink" due to the proximity to the AGP card though.
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited April 2006
I plan on putting the massive Scythe Ninja heatsink with a 120mm silentfan on the D805 Puting that into and pulling that out of a case can be a real PITA !
Excellent choice! I've got one cooling a P820 2.8@3.8, full load.
I would sink everything muddocktor has circled on his picture. Dis-colored areas on the back of my old board tell me I'm going to do them all! (when I get my board back).
I built mine on a piece of plywood and the box it came in. The box just to hold the board up to clear the pci/agp cards. I do believe ( If I remember correctly) Asus states you can use a phone book to achieve the same thing. ( that was for out-of-the -case troubleshooting).
Donut,
It looks like you have the powered motherboard sitting on the foam that came with it in the box, is that right?
Are you saying that muddocktor correctly identified all the mosfets you would sink or that you would sink ALL the mosfets on the board (since the board has more than he pointed out). If nessesary I can post a fairly detailed photo of the board that I took.
BTW, that's one bigass heatsink & fan you got on it
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited April 2006
The mosfet chips Muddocktor identified would do well to be cooled. The ones that get the hottest are the ones closest to the CPU socket. If you overclock, they will get very hot. Donut and I both burned out a board by overclocking without the mosfets by the socket being cooled. The mosfets away from the socket don't get nearly as hot. I don't know if it makes a difference to cool them or not. But if Mudd recommends it, I won't argue with him.
Leonardo,
your sig shows a real devotion to the D820. I see-saw back and forth between wanting to buy one or the D805.
I wish I could make up my mind....
I don't want to buy both because this build will be a stop-gap between my P4 2.4C@3.2 and the Conroe I will probably buy in the medium term future.
I will buy this coming week though....
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited April 2006
Leonardo,
your sig shows a real devotion to the D820. I see-saw back and forth between wanting to buy one or the D805.
I wish I could make up my mind....
I don't want to buy both because this build will be a stop-gap between my P4 2.4C@3.2 and the Conroe I will probably buy in the medium term future.
LOL, no, not devotion. Rather they were dirt cheap to buy! They had better be, considering all the heat they put out and the drain they put on my community's power main!
If I were in your shoes, if the price difference were within $30, I'd spring for the 820 over the 805. The 820 has a superior FSB and cache. The main reason I went Intel dual core, as I wrote above, was for the price - essentially three CPUs for the price of one high-end AMD. I sourced them from eBay and trading forums. Motherboards all came Newegg refurbished or from eBay also. Both the 805s and 820s are great overclockers...as long as you've got the cooling to handle it. I've read of people getting nearly the OCs that I've got using the retail, stock coolers. I find that very hard to believe, unless: 1) those people have exceptional, cool running chips, 2) ambient temperatures where their comptuters are remain very cool, or 3) they are telling big whoppers.
If you're buying a CPU as only an interim solution until Conroe is available, I'd definitely shop forums and eBay.
Leonardo,
Interesting reply. Retail the D805 can be had here in Canada for $149 while the D820 is $259 (prices at NCIX.com). I've been looking at Ebay for the D820 but once the auctions get close to closing the prices just get bid up too close to retail for my tastes.
Thanks for the pointers
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited April 2006
Canada. Ok, that's a different dynamic than what I was describing. On the Canada eBay, don't you have a mix of US and Canadian auctions? I know that one I peruse eBay, I see auctions from the US, Canada, the UK, and lots of too-good-to-be true offers from Hong Kong and the PRC.
Maybe the pool of excess D8xx series is starting to dry up. Well anyway, from what you're describing, I'd go with the 805 and overclock it.
Just grabbed a new unopened box D820 off ebay.ca for the equivilent of $170 US shippng inc.
...must sink the mosfets...
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited April 2006
There you go! Have fun. Be advised: it's a hot little dude. Don't have a heart attack when you see the temps go WAY up under overclocking. The do though, overclcock very nicely.
You said you were getting a Scythe Ninja, right? Currently my System 3 in signature is running at 3.7GHz full load, two instances of Folding@Home. The room is fairly warm due to three overclocked D820 systems in here. But anyway, with the Ninja, the CPU hovers around 60*C at full load.
Very interesting reading. My temps get close to 70. I applied thermal past and it didn't make anny diffrence. After the docors visit I guess I'll go to Fry's and see what kind of fans they have. The stck one is soon to be gone. I'v got mine to 3.3 I believe but I know its ideling down after like 64 to 66 deg. C. even at stock 2.6 It'll get mid 60'sC and start to idel down. But what the hey.
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited April 2006
see what kind of fans they have
When you say "fans", are you referring to case fans or CPU heatsink/fan units?
Well I got a Zalman CNPS9500 LED and installed it. WOW my temps droped. Around 34 at startup. Iv been running s&m 1.7.0 for about 15 min now and only up to 58. Thats 10 deg. C lower than before. Thats running it at 3317. OC at 24.39%. I'll eventualy lower it though. Proc. load stays at 98/99 %. Better than before droping down to 80% at times. I'm a happy camper now.
Yeah it is, but the BT and Scythe Ninja both perform better, IMO. That is, if you have enough room in the case to mount those beasts. the Zalman is a little bit shorter.
I just get D805 and MSI 945p Neo2-F , but when I try ovrcklock, my computer boots two times and returns to 133 FSB , some thing is in CoreCenter, when I hit Apply nothing hapens , where I'm wrong?
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited April 2006
but the BT and Scythe Ninja both perform better, IMO
You are right. My use of all three of these beasts showed the Typhoon and Ninja to outperform the Zalman by about 4*C on average at full load.
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
I just get D805 and MSI 945p Neo2-F , but when I try ovrcklock, my computer boots two times and returns to 133 FSB , some thing is in CoreCenter, when I hit Apply nothing hapens , where I'm wrong?
Daimi, so that we can better serve you, please start a new thread here in the Performance Tweaking forum. Don't worry about your English abilities. It appears to be good enough. When you open your thread, please list your system specifications:
Motherboard brand and model
DRAM brand, speed, and quantity
power supply unit, brand, model, and specifications
CPU heatsink brand and model
Comments
I could only do 166fsb prime stable, any more required bumping the vcore and the temps were climbing to high. (60c+ under load as measured by Asus pc probe)
As far as stability, I would suspect both the board and your psu. The board was a budget board and I don't feel the power regulation is up to the task. As far as your psu, that thing has got to be working hard trying to feed that beast. I had tried a Thermaltake 420w psu (18a on the 12v rail) thinking that maybe my e-power psu didn't have enough oomph (it's rated 28a on the 12v) The 12v on the Thermaltake was reading 11.6-11.7 under load. ( it reads 12.01 on a dual-proc Opteron rig, under load). I'm not saying get rid of your psu, just keep an eye on it. After all a good 350w is better than some of the cheap 500w, your proof of that.
You might want to check-out Leo's thread on overclocking the 820. there is a lot of good info in there, especially regarding these Dual-core Intels. D820 Dual Core Overclocking
OK, I see.
I would like to stay with DDR and AGP for the time being.
Difficult to find a good stable s775 MoBo that supports DDR+AGP+D805 cpu ( and even better also PCie for later graphics upgrade).
Asus P5VD1-X with VIA PT880Ultra chipset is the only one I found so far that support all these options, but then again, the OC potenial may be worse.
Maybe I´ll try it out anyway.
Thanks for your response and OC link......
I forgot to mention it earlier,
OK, I´ve just ordered a P5VD1-X and I´ll get it next week.
Probably works fine at stock speeds, No huge expections though regarding OC
Thanks.....
- you probably did damage your motherboard
- those vCore fluctuations are ue more to the motherboard than the PSU, especially if the 12V line is consistent
- I've used MSI 945P Neo-F, Asus P5PL2, Asus P5LD2, and Asus P5WD2 and P5WD2 Premium motherboards for Smithfield overclocking and have never seen as poor vCore stability as what you are reporting.
If you are interested in a new motherboard for Smithfield or Pressler core CPUs, it just doesn't make sense to look for an AGP-DDR board. Sorry, but the future is definitely PCIe and DDR2. No way getting around it. If you need a temporary solution, I suggest you go on eBay and find a Quadro NVS 280/285 video card. You can find these in PCIe, PCI, and AGP formats, all very inexpensive. No, you won't want to game with them, but their 2D quality is superb, and they do play movies without a problem. Unless you try high-FPS applications, you wouldn't know that you aren't running a several hundred dollar video card.
I really recommend you do not go with a compromise solution like the Asus P5VD1-X. Just keep using what you've got, save your money, and get a dedicated DDR2-PCIe board. You will also want to upgrade your PSU. No matter the quality, a 350 watt unit is just not designed for dual core overclocking and PCIe. You need more power.
Thanks for taking time to reply and you are ofcourse right in all what you´re saying about the future with DDR2 and PCIe.
But the thing is that I´m having some DDR RAM and AGP cards left overs, which I´m trying to build a cheap dual core / multitasking "office system" from.
D805 cpu is the only dual core cpu that I find possible to fit this low budget system and therefore I´m building a system based on that cpu with DDR and AGP.
Matter of fact, I was quite happy running the D805@3.6Ghz at 1.425vcore and benching superPi at 36sec /1M with the P5P800SE mobo before I crossed line with to much vcore and pressure on the mosfets, too anxious to reach 3.8Ghz.
The only thing that dissapointed me about the P5P800SE is that servere 0,2%vcore fluctation even at low OC and stock speed which is the only reason not to get another one of this mobo´s.
The D805 itself seems like a good OC chips, since it´manage to stay dual-prime-stable at 3.3 - 3.6Ghz, even with bad vcore flucation down to 1.20v as lowest.
However, I may have to realize that these cheap combo-mobo´s are not made for overclocking, even though I can´t stay away from trying.
Maybe the P5VD1-X mobo with VIA PT880Ultra chipset will solve that problem.
Even if it´s a very flexible mobo with support for D805 ( 533/800/1066mhz cpu´s ) + DDR + AGP + PCIe I don´t think there are too much biosoptions for OC.
Seriously, that's a very nice OC (was a nice OC).
Just a follow-up, from last post.
I did install same hardware as before on the ASUS P5P800SE ( burned mosfets/circuits ) on a new ASUS P5VD1-X mobo and this worked out pretty well.
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=206&model=584&modelmenu=1
D 805 cpu booted fine after biosupdate.
However, no surprise regarding OC capability. Even though ASUS specify "CPU voltage adjustable" on the website specification
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=584&l1=3&l2=11&l3=206
ASUS C.P.R.(CPU Parameter Recall)
CPU voltage adjustable
SFS (Stepless Frequency Selection) from 133MHz up to 400MHz at 1MHz increment
Adjustable FSB/DDR ratio. Fixed AGP8X/PCI or PCI/PCIe frequencies.
there were none to find in bios ( no vcore or vdimm) and no OC software that followed either.
I was only able to run at 3.12Ghz at stock vcore.
Running prime at that speed, I could read about 0.15v fluctation and just to be sure that not the HEC 350w PSU 18amp/12v was the culprit, I invested in a Tagan 580w with 2x20amp or 35amp with combined 12v lines ( needed that anyway ).
The fluctation went down to some 0.10v, but these cheap combo-mobo´s does not have the best stability as we all now and did not affect the OC capability in either way.
So now I´ve got a working flexible combo mobo, but without possiblity to really squeeze the potenital from the D805 cpu.
Even though this lowbudget system wasn´t aimed for highperformance, I still want to give it a last shot and buy a Gigabyte mobo that supports DDR / AGP and D805 cpu with adjustable vcore.
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2174&ModelName=GA-8IPE775-G
I just got a P5P800SE and intend on buying a D805 for overclocking. With your vast experience I just have to ask....
I have some small memory chip copper heat sinks I could mod for mosfets etc.
Which or where are the mosfets located that I should be concerned with and posibly put a heatsink on?
I might swap out the ASUS passive northbridge too for a solid copper sink with Silenex fan. Just a thought.
Also... you seemed to build and bench your P5P800SE outside of the case. What surface can I use to do this? Right now I have to go through the trouble of installing everything into the case..then pray I don't have to dis-assemble.
I plan on putting the massive Scythe Ninja heatsink with a 120mm silentfan on the D805 Puting that into and pulling that out of a case can be a real PITA !
EDIT: Be aware that the one near the AGP slot might be impossible to "sink" due to the proximity to the AGP card though.
If you haven't already seen it, check out our
Thermaltake Typhoon/Scythe Ninja/Zalman 9500 comparison mini article.
I built mine on a piece of plywood and the box it came in. The box just to hold the board up to clear the pci/agp cards. I do believe ( If I remember correctly) Asus states you can use a phone book to achieve the same thing. ( that was for out-of-the -case troubleshooting).
It looks like you have the powered motherboard sitting on the foam that came with it in the box, is that right?
Are you saying that muddocktor correctly identified all the mosfets you would sink or that you would sink ALL the mosfets on the board (since the board has more than he pointed out). If nessesary I can post a fairly detailed photo of the board that I took.
BTW, that's one bigass heatsink & fan you got on it
your sig shows a real devotion to the D820. I see-saw back and forth between wanting to buy one or the D805.
I wish I could make up my mind....
I don't want to buy both because this build will be a stop-gap between my P4 2.4C@3.2 and the Conroe I will probably buy in the medium term future.
I will buy this coming week though....
If I were in your shoes, if the price difference were within $30, I'd spring for the 820 over the 805. The 820 has a superior FSB and cache. The main reason I went Intel dual core, as I wrote above, was for the price - essentially three CPUs for the price of one high-end AMD. I sourced them from eBay and trading forums. Motherboards all came Newegg refurbished or from eBay also. Both the 805s and 820s are great overclockers...as long as you've got the cooling to handle it. I've read of people getting nearly the OCs that I've got using the retail, stock coolers. I find that very hard to believe, unless: 1) those people have exceptional, cool running chips, 2) ambient temperatures where their comptuters are remain very cool, or 3) they are telling big whoppers.
If you're buying a CPU as only an interim solution until Conroe is available, I'd definitely shop forums and eBay.
Interesting reply. Retail the D805 can be had here in Canada for $149 while the D820 is $259 (prices at NCIX.com). I've been looking at Ebay for the D820 but once the auctions get close to closing the prices just get bid up too close to retail for my tastes.
Thanks for the pointers
Maybe the pool of excess D8xx series is starting to dry up. Well anyway, from what you're describing, I'd go with the 805 and overclock it.
...must sink the mosfets...
You said you were getting a Scythe Ninja, right? Currently my System 3 in signature is running at 3.7GHz full load, two instances of Folding@Home. The room is fairly warm due to three overclocked D820 systems in here. But anyway, with the Ninja, the CPU hovers around 60*C at full load.
Yeah it is, but the BT and Scythe Ninja both perform better, IMO. That is, if you have enough room in the case to mount those beasts. the Zalman is a little bit shorter.
First, excuse my English
I just get D805 and MSI 945p Neo2-F , but when I try ovrcklock, my computer boots two times and returns to 133 FSB , some thing is in CoreCenter, when I hit Apply nothing hapens , where I'm wrong?
Daimi, so that we can better serve you, please start a new thread here in the Performance Tweaking forum. Don't worry about your English abilities. It appears to be good enough. When you open your thread, please list your system specifications:
Motherboard brand and model
DRAM brand, speed, and quantity
power supply unit, brand, model, and specifications
CPU heatsink brand and model