I"ve also got a p5p800se, currently running @170fsb. I know it has more headroom, but after cooking 1 board I don't have the guts to boost the voltage above stock. (the power regulation on this board does not like dual cores)
Hi Donut,
I just registered to be able to ask you a question. I was using an Asus P5P800-SE with Pentium D 840 (no overclocking). The motherboard failed after several weeks. When I was disassembling the system to find the problem, I also noticed discoloration at the backside of the board under the power circuitry, apparently it was getting too hot. I have just sent the board to ASUS for RMA. Do you mind, telling me your RMA experience with Asus; how long it took to receive the replacement board? was the replacement a new board or a refurbished one? etc. Do you think I could rely on the replacement or the best solution is to use another board?
Thanks in advance
If I remember correctly, it took 2-3 wks for my rma. As far as I could tell it was a new board. In my opinion, I would not rely on this board for everyday use. Maybe with a single core proc. it would be alright, but with you cooking a board with NO oc-ing using a dual core, nope wouldn't consider it. Right now my new board is still running, it's a dedicated folding rig running full load 24/7. I had to sink all the mosfets I could, so far it seems to be working.
When I built mine originally, it was for my wife to replace an XP rig that was acting up. When this board died, I decided that I needed something a little more reliable. Going dual-core is nice but I would also recommend you step up to a board that has PCI-E and DDR-2 they also seem to have better power regulation.
These are just my opinions, Your mileage may vary.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited July 2006
Mirage, you just great advice from Donut.
I lost an Asus board to the same problem that I believe you are describing. The circuitry underneath the mosfets (chips surrounding the CPU socket) burned out. Asus' RMA process was very good in my experience, from the time I registered at the RMA online site until the time I held a new (OEM) board in my hand was three weeks or less. Donut, didn't I sell that fresh RMA to you? Maybe it was someone at Anandtech.
I lost an Asus board to the same problem that I believe you are describing. The circuitry underneath the mosfets (chips surrounding the CPU socket) burned out. Asus' RMA process was very good in my experience, from the time I registered at the RMA online site until the time I held a new (OEM) board in my hand was three weeks or less. Donut, didn't I sell that fresh RMA to you? Maybe it was someone at Anandtech.
I was hoping you would chime in. I honestly don't remember how long it took. I didn't send it right out, and the new one arrived when I was out of town.
mirage, if you look in Leonardo's sig, he has some solid boards listed. If you also note they're with some nice OC's and seem to be holding up rather well. It might cost more now, but down the road you'll be thankful.
Leo, I bought the MSI board (your fresh RMA) as a replacement for my Asus and loving wifes new rig.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited July 2006
Oh, right, my other failed LGA775 board. Well, it also was a fresh RMA, also an OEM model, I believe. I think MSI motherboards are just great, solid boards. Too bad MSI won't get serious about high performance. But then, I guess that's not the niche they want.
he has some solid boards listed...
Thank Asus. Yeah, I don't think you can get a better socket 775 combination of performance, quality, and durability than with the P5WD series. They are fast, tough, and never say never. It's been very warm in my main home office lately. Two of the machines even reached CPU temperatures approaching 70*C. I have not had any problems, did not back off at all on the overclclocks, and have kept the CPUs at 100% load each core, full time.
Of all the motherboards I've used/owned, two stand out clearly from all the rest in performance, reliability, quality: Abit IC7/G (Socket 478) and Asus P5WD2/Premium (Socket 775). I've had very good AMD boards as well, such as the Abit KX7-333R, but just nothing up to the standard of the boards I named above.
If I remember correctly, it took 2-3 wks for my rma. As far as I could tell it was a new board. In my opinion, I would not rely on this board for everyday use.
...
These are just my opinions, Your mileage may vary.
Thanks for the quick reply and recommendations. I will also stick heat sinks on the MOSFETs when I receive the replacement. I have already bought the Arctic Alumina Adhesive for that, but I will not be able to RMA the board if it fails again.
You are right about PCI-E and DDR2 recommendation, but I have some good parts (ATI x800xl 256 MB, 1GB Crucial Ballistix) that I can only use with an AGP/DDR board. I think buying a Pentium-D 930 could be cheaper for me to solve this power problem. What do you think?
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited July 2006
I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "power problem."
I'm kind of pissed since I could have avoided all this by staying away from the Smithfield flamethrower!
Tell me about it! I've got three of those toaster ovens, all overclocked by about 900MHz, all in one small home office. Nice in the winter, but gas heating is so much cheaper than electric...
I don't remember exactly what the differences of power draw are between the D8XX and D9XX series. I think it may be about 20% less power consumption with D9XX at full load as compared to the D8's. I really don't know if that would help you or not. It might be less expensive to just find a used P5WD2 on eBay or Anandtech (who knows, maybe at Short-Media) than buying a new CPU. Frankly, I wouldn't really attempt uppity overclocks on that motherboard, well, at least until you get the MOSFETS cooled. If you run the FSB up too high, then you would probably need an active northbridge cooler (or just add a fan to the existing cooler, which is what I've done). If you do decide to get a D930, you might want to wait a couple weeks until the Conroes are available, which should drive down the prices of D9XX series.
If it were my system, I'd replace the motherboard before I'd replace the D820. Yeah, the D820s are hot little pricks, but they do overclock nicely. And your Ninja is a perfect heatsink for the 820.
(Was that rambling enough?)
EDIT: sorry, I forgot, you don't have DDR2 DRAM. well then, the P5WD2 is probably not an option. He just try your current board with MOSFET sinks and see how it goes. If you still have problems....
Leo and Donut, I agree that P5P800SE for a dual core system was not a good choice that I can only see now.
I just filled up my signature, as you can see PC building and overclocking is a hobby for me just like you guys. Actually I have two more PC's from 5-6 years ago that are still running but I did not list them. With this P5P800-SE I was planning to have a dual processor server/workstation. I did not tell the whole story, it was more like a disaster. When the motherboard was gone it actually destroyed the processor as well. First, I found that the processor was bad with the help of a friend's motherboard. Then, I bought a Pentium D-805 and found that motherboard was not working too. Now I am waiting for the motherboard, and I have pretty much lost my enthusiasm about the dual-core idea. But the parts that scattered around are still motivating me to put back the PC together. I think I can not explain to my wife why I want to buy another graphics card and more memory and a new motherboard to finish the project. Maybe I should have skipped these final Netburst chips and waited a little longer for the Core architecture to play with dual-core. Anyway I did not overclock PD-840 but I will definitely play with PD-805 when the replacement arrives, if the motherboard breaks again, I will wait until Core or go with AM2. This is what I had to do at the beginning, oh well it is today that was yesterday. Thanks guys, I will let you know how I burn the CPU and motherboard again at least this time it will happen when I am overclocking ))
Cheers
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited July 2006
Oh....OK. I apologize for underestimating you. Sorry, did not realize you were that experienced. Yeah, I can appreciate your dilemma. Hey, cross your fingers: maybe sinked MOSFETS (and perhaps also an actively cooled NB) will get you in good shape.
Keep us informed. I hope you stay active here at Short-Media. You'll find us all a fairly easy going, pleasant lot.
Well, no need for that. You suggestions are well taken, thanks for the nice discussion. I found a good deal for a Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro to go with the PD-805. I am hoping that it will also help cooling the mosfets with the parallel air flow towards the rear exhaust. These coolers have several bottom fins curved towards the motherboard to direct some air over the mosfets, I will see how effective they are. Otherwise I have two silent 40mm fans for the brute force cooling of mosfets.
See you all soon
PS: I added my fourth and favorite overclock in my signature. But I do not have this computer anymore I gave it to a close friend.
Somebody else in this thread (Paradox_969) was using a Sythe Ninja cooler on his board, same fan orientation as the Freezer pro (I think), and found his mosfets were even hotter.
When I got my board (p5p 800se) back from rma, I sinked everything I could using thermal tape in case I had to do another rma. So far it seems to have worked. The sinks I used by the AGP slot were extremely hot! I rigged an 80mm fan to blow across my card thus cooling those sinks. The Big Typhoon cooler seems to have enough flow to keep the rest cool. Being cheap, I also ghetto-modded an old case I had to allow some better cooling. PSU is on top (outside) the case. (keeps that cooler also) and fitted a 120mm fan where the psu used to be. Right now the thing is a dust magnet, but the modded case keeps the cats out of it.
I was thinking that if the mosfets are getting that hot, the thermal tapes might become loose. A loose heatsink can cause shorts on the motherboard. Don't you think so?
I was thinking that if the mosfets are getting that hot, the thermal tapes might become loose. A loose heatsink can cause shorts on the motherboard. Don't you think so?
That's what I thought also, maybe someone with further experience can chime in. A loose sink is a bad thing. but after looking at ramsinks and realizing how hot vid card ram can get, I decided to give it a try. Just went to check on said rig. The sinks aren't real tight but definately warm (btw rig is running so sinks are still hot). When I set the rig up I did expect the board to fry again, so I chose to use the tape, planning on another RMA. I don't think I'd start lugging it off to LAN's without using something better.
FWIW, side note- On the board I got back from Asus, the on-board ethernet did not work. that's a reason for a return right there. After reading through the Asus forums this also is a common problem with these boards. I didn't want to wait so old nic card went in and is still running fine as we speak. knock wood.
That's what I thought also, maybe someone with further experience can chime in. A loose sink is a bad thing. but after looking at ramsinks and realizing how hot vid card ram can get, I decided to give it a try. Just went to check on said rig. The sinks aren't real tight but definately warm (btw rig is running so sinks are still hot). When I set the rig up I did expect the board to fry again, so I chose to use the tape, planning on another RMA. I don't think I'd start lugging it off to LAN's without using something better.
FWIW, side note- On the board I got back from Asus, the on-board ethernet did not work. that's a reason for a return right there. After reading through the Asus forums this also is a common problem with these boards. I didn't want to wait so old nic card went in and is still running fine as we speak. knock wood.
If the metal sink touches the inductor core with a slight slide or shorts one of the surface mount resistors, I would expect a catastrophic result. My plan is to test the replacement board without any modification first, and after that tightly stick the heat sinks with arctic alumina adhesive. If it burns again, I will not bother RMA'ing again, I will move on to the current generation boards. I hope the network interface works on the replacement board, it was working on the one I sent. I am surprised that ASUS could release this kind of a weak board, so far I have seen big voltage droops, failing voltage regulators, and network interfaces.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited July 2006
My System 1 is running a Scythe Ninja. As far as I know, the MOSFETS are not overheating. I have a 120mm fan pushing about 55cfm through the Ninja, in line with the case's 120mm exhaust. The MOSFETS on the P5WD2 motherboard are cooled with a modular sink that is bolted to the board.
My System 1 is running a Scythe Ninja. As far as I know, the MOSFETS are not overheating. I have a 120mm fan pushing about 55cfm through the Ninja, in line with the case's 120mm exhaust. The MOSFETS on the P5WD2 motherboard are cooled with a modular sink that is bolted to the board.
I just looked at the mosfet heatsink on P5WD2-P, then I checked the mosfets on P5P800-SE. It seems that P5P800-SE also has the mounting holes for mosfet heatsink and it is compatible with the P5WD2 heatsink !! If I could ever find that heatsink .... you can see below
If the metal sink touches the inductor core with a slight slide or shorts one of the surface mount resistors, I would expect a catastrophic result. My plan is to test the replacement board without any modification first, and after that tightly stick the heat sinks with arctic alumina adhesive. If it burns again, I will not bother RMA'ing again, I will move on to the current generation boards. I hope the network interface works on the replacement board, it was working on the one I sent. I am surprised that ASUS could release this kind of a weak board, so far I have seen big voltage droops, failing voltage regulators, and network interfaces.
Sorry, I wasn't to clear. . I know about metal flying around inside the case, I was looking for more feedback on the TIM used on ramsinks.
I have moved on. This board is now a dedicated folding box, I stepped up to an MSI board for wife's machine (now I have 2 D805s running) If the Asus dies again I'm not out much, then I'll probibly upgrade that one also.
I've also got an Asus dual Xeon board that has alot of the same issues, but once you work around/deal with the issues it turned into a rocket. (1.6ghz running stable @ 2.9ghz.)
I do not have exact data for this, only the burn on my finger But the temperature on the hottest memory chip I feel was much lower than what I remember on the MOSFETS near the CPU socket. I was not able to hold my finger on the MOSFETS. So the TIM used for memory sinks may not be ideal for the MOSFET sinks especially when the sink is as large as the one shown above. If the sinks are smaller (lighter) and individually placed on each MOSFET, the thermal tape might be able to support its weight at high temperature. Anyone who knows the exact temperatures ?
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited July 2006
RE: your pictures and comments concerning MOSFET cooling, two Asus motherboards compared
Any decent heatsink, Asus or third party, should solve overheating problems. With my boards (P5WD2s), I removed the stock heatsinks, cleaned the silicon-based thermal paste off the sinks and MOSFETS, and applied Arctic Silver 3 or 4, remounting the stock heatsinks. I replaced the stock plastic, spring-loaded mounting pins with small stainless steel bolts and nuts, insulating the nuts on the backside of the motherboard with non-metal washers. This mounting method causes a much more positive pressure of the heatsinks on the MOSFETS. If you do change out the paste or mount the sinks using a thermal adhesive, be very careful. The MOSFETs are tiny and are not raised off the motherboard surface very high. If you aren't careful, it is very, very easy to slop thermal paste on the electrical leads connected to the MOSFETs. It is advisable to put only a very thin layer of Arctic Silver on the bottom of the heatsink (but not on the MOSFETs) to just continue using the non-conductive, non-capacitive silicon paste.
I do not have exact data for this, only the burn on my finger But the temperature on the hottest memory chip I feel was much lower than what I remember on the MOSFETS near the CPU socket. I was not able to hold my finger on the MOSFETS. So the TIM used for memory sinks may not be ideal for the MOSFET sinks especially when the sink is as large as the one shown above. If the sinks are smaller (lighter) and individually placed on each MOSFET, the thermal tape might be able to support its weight at high temperature. Anyone who knows the exact temperatures ?
IIRC, I did place them on each individual one, (may have used a couple of larger ones to act a a double) I do remember on my PC-DL, removing the mosfet sink and putting AS on them. It was kind of a pain as the ones in the center sat lower than the outer ones.
FWIW, I did the sink job on the new board, before I even tried to fire it up.
If it was a little black square-it got sinked! I was actually surprized how hot the ones by the AGP slot got. I too had the little square "brand" on one finger.:) I'm just surprized the thing is still running!:bigggrin:
Just dropped to check on this thread and discovered Mirage has joined in on the fun.
Well, Yeah, I used a Sythe Ninja and can tell you that in conjunction with a 120mm fan is extremely effective at cooling. The problem I had wasn't so much with the Ninja but with the case I was using. You see, My case doesn't have a provision for a rear venting fan in the vicinity of the cpu area. So, I had heat building up UNDER the Ninja thanks to the blistering hot mosfets with no where to go. My PSU though does vent air up and out from the CPU area but I guess it doesn't draw it quick enough.
The Thermaltake Typhoon however has the 120mm fan pointing DOWN onto the heatsink and CPU creating air flow below the heatsink thereby helping to cool the mosfets. I can stick my finger in there ( ehehehe ) and feel the air movement.
Mirage, I found a local shop that has pure copper heatsinks intended for attachment to memory sticks. They are individual sinks that you stick with the supplied tape onto the individual chips on a stick of memory. I just stuck them right onto the mosfets. I cut a few where needed. So far none are loose at all.
In addition I cut access holes for 2 60mm fans into the rear panel of my box, near the CPU area. These really help vent that oven around the CPU....even though I run open case! I can feel the hot coming out air when I hold my hand up to the two small fans.
I also swapped the ASUS Northbridge heatsink for a Silenex solid copper/blue led fan Northbridge cooler. Seems to do the job.
I have to agree that the P5P800SE is a disapointment that is only made bearable by the fact that it was so cheap and that I could re-cycle 2 gigs of memory and my pretty decent x850Pro (unlocked 16 pipes/clocked to XT PE) AGP video card.
My aim is now for a Conroe setup come this fall , once the new generation of motherboards come out. Unfortunately that means buying EVERYTHING new.... CPU, Memory, GPU .... OUCH!!!!
:banghead:
Just dropped to check on this thread and discovered Mirage has joined in on the fun.
Well, Yeah, I used a Sythe Ninja and can tell you that in conjunction with a 120mm fan is extremely effective at cooling. The problem I had wasn't so much with the Ninja but with the case I was using. You see, My case doesn't have a provision for a rear venting fan in the vicinity of the cpu area. So, I had heat building up UNDER the Ninja thanks to the blistering hot mosfets with no where to go. My PSU though does vent air up and out from the CPU area but I guess it doesn't draw it quick enough.
The Thermaltake Typhoon however has the 120mm fan pointing DOWN onto the heatsink and CPU creating air flow below the heatsink thereby helping to cool the mosfets. I can stick my finger in there ( ehehehe ) and feel the air movement.
Mirage, I found a local shop that has pure copper heatsinks intended for attachment to memory sticks. They are individual sinks that you stick with the supplied tape onto the individual chips on a stick of memory. I just stuck them right onto the mosfets. I cut a few where needed. So far none are loose at all.
In addition I cut access holes for 2 60mm fans into the rear panel of my box, near the CPU area. These really help vent that oven around the CPU....even though I run open case! I can feel the hot coming out air when I hold my hand up to the two small fans.
I also swapped the ASUS Northbridge heatsink for a Silenex solid copper/blue led fan Northbridge cooler. Seems to do the job.
I have to agree that the P5P800SE is a disapointment that is only made bearable by the fact that it was so cheap and that I could re-cycle 2 gigs of memory and my pretty decent x850Pro (unlocked 16 pipes/clocked to XT PE) AGP video card.
My aim is now for a Conroe setup come this fall , once the new generation of motherboards come out. Unfortunately that means buying EVERYTHING new.... CPU, Memory, GPU .... OUCH!!!!
:banghead:
Cheers all
Paradox,
Thanks for the feedback. Your reply has been a good conincidence because I have received the P5P800-SE from RMA today and started reassembling the system. I installed a huge heatsink that covers the six MOSFETS behind the CPU socket using Arctic Alumina adhesive. I cut this heatsink from an old AMDK6 heatsink. I have no intention to RMA again if there is any problem. There is a picture below, not a good one though, but anyway. It seems to be cooling the mosfets, because I am able to do the finger testnow while running double Prime95s. The curved fins of AC Freezer7Pro is blowing air on the MOSFET heatsink while rear exhaust and 120 mm fan of the power supply withdraws the hot air out. I am working on overclocking now. I will let you know soon about the final results.
Mirage, my memory isn't as good as it used to be- was there an elevation difference on the mosfets? That and a real noob question-how are those adhesives to work with? Thick, thin, 2 part epoxy? I think my board is due for something a little more permanent. I sinked, it lived, might have to keep it now.:D
Btw- I haven't used any of the TIM "glues" before, usually all i have to do is change the TIM under an existing sink and maybe put a fan on it.
Okay, I have two 805D's coming tomorrow with motherboards to go with 'em. I'm interested in overclocking as well, but I'm betting I will be needing to heatsink the mosfets, etc. So you guys are using memory heatsinks? And attaching them with thermal epoxy (or will any epoxy work)? I also need to slap a heatsink on an onboard Nvidia chipset on a friends motherboard.
Donut, there was a slight elevation difference but I put a little thick adhesive layer on the mosfets to compensate the difference. When I placed the big heat sink, its base made them even. Since the thermal adhesive is not conductive, I did not care much about overflowing on the contacts, and it worked. The adhesive is called Arctic Alumina Adhesive with two tubes. It is, I think, thermal epoxy.
Daxx, I cut an aluminum K6 CPU heatsink for the 6 mosfets near the CPU socket. They were getting too hot and I thought RAM sinks would not be sufficient. You can see the pictures of the mosfets in the previous pages of this thread including the heatsink I used in my previous post.
My overclock is now at 3.33 GHz without any voltage adjustment, but voltage droop is almost 0.1v and processor temperature goes upto 58C under load. I need to enhance cooling before increasing the voltage for higher frequencies. I might settle at this speed for a while to complete the longer stability tests. Let me know if you have any suggestions.
Okay, I have two 805D's coming tomorrow with motherboards to go with 'em. I'm interested in overclocking as well, but I'm betting I will be needing to heatsink the mosfets, etc. So you guys are using memory heatsinks? And attaching them with thermal epoxy (or will any epoxy work)? I also need to slap a heatsink on an onboard Nvidia chipset on a friends motherboard.
What did you get for motherboards? The overheating mosfets just seem to be an issue with the Asus P5P800se. (unless of course yours are getting to hot)
They are ramsinks iirc. I've got mine attached with the included TIM material right now. If you want permanent go with thermal epoxy. JB weld would stick the sink on, but i don't think it would transfer heat to well.
In a while I will see if I can find a link to the sinks I'm using. I'm still on my first cup of coffee and having to backspace a whole lot while typing.
@ mirage, That is about the same point I hit on stock volts. (170fsb) and folding temps are 58c to 60c. there is a droop mod for this board someplace, I just don't remember where I saw it now.
What did you get for motherboards? The overheating mosfets just seem to be an issue with the Asus P5P800se. (unless of course yours are getting to hot)
I got ASUS P5VDC-MX Socket T (LGA 775) VIA P4M800 PRO Micro ATX because they were open box and cheap. I'm trying to build up a cheap folding unit and put it on a diskless farm using LTSP. I hope my choice of motherboard wasn't a dud.
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LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited July 2006
Okay, I have two 805D's coming tomorrow with motherboards to go with 'em.
AH....I should have acted sooner. I'll have 3 P D820s for sale within two weeks. fire sale
Good choice on the 805's though. You just can't match the price/performance ratio. Just can't.
Mirage, my cpu doesn't get hotter than the low 50's under full load ...... BUT ....
I too suffer the dreaded Voltage droop.
My overclock is 3.4 right now on both stock voltage or anything else. If I raise the voltage I can go 3.6+ but the droop only gets worse so it isn't stable. I am 100% sure with a quality mobo I could get 3.6+ stable but then I'd have to buy ram and a video card. No thanks, I'm waiting for Conroe and the new harvest of motherboards from either Asus or Abit. If only ASUS had given us decent power regulation, this motherboard would be crack!
Comments
Hi Donut,
I just registered to be able to ask you a question. I was using an Asus P5P800-SE with Pentium D 840 (no overclocking). The motherboard failed after several weeks. When I was disassembling the system to find the problem, I also noticed discoloration at the backside of the board under the power circuitry, apparently it was getting too hot. I have just sent the board to ASUS for RMA. Do you mind, telling me your RMA experience with Asus; how long it took to receive the replacement board? was the replacement a new board or a refurbished one? etc. Do you think I could rely on the replacement or the best solution is to use another board?
Thanks in advance
If I remember correctly, it took 2-3 wks for my rma. As far as I could tell it was a new board. In my opinion, I would not rely on this board for everyday use. Maybe with a single core proc. it would be alright, but with you cooking a board with NO oc-ing using a dual core, nope wouldn't consider it. Right now my new board is still running, it's a dedicated folding rig running full load 24/7. I had to sink all the mosfets I could, so far it seems to be working.
When I built mine originally, it was for my wife to replace an XP rig that was acting up. When this board died, I decided that I needed something a little more reliable. Going dual-core is nice but I would also recommend you step up to a board that has PCI-E and DDR-2 they also seem to have better power regulation.
These are just my opinions, Your mileage may vary.
I lost an Asus board to the same problem that I believe you are describing. The circuitry underneath the mosfets (chips surrounding the CPU socket) burned out. Asus' RMA process was very good in my experience, from the time I registered at the RMA online site until the time I held a new (OEM) board in my hand was three weeks or less. Donut, didn't I sell that fresh RMA to you? Maybe it was someone at Anandtech.
I was hoping you would chime in.
mirage, if you look in Leonardo's sig, he has some solid boards listed. If you also note they're with some nice OC's and seem to be holding up rather well. It might cost more now, but down the road you'll be thankful.
Leo, I bought the MSI board (your fresh RMA) as a replacement for my Asus and loving wifes new rig.
Of all the motherboards I've used/owned, two stand out clearly from all the rest in performance, reliability, quality: Abit IC7/G (Socket 478) and Asus P5WD2/Premium (Socket 775). I've had very good AMD boards as well, such as the Abit KX7-333R, but just nothing up to the standard of the boards I named above.
Thanks for the quick reply and recommendations. I will also stick heat sinks on the MOSFETs when I receive the replacement. I have already bought the Arctic Alumina Adhesive for that, but I will not be able to RMA the board if it fails again.
You are right about PCI-E and DDR2 recommendation, but I have some good parts (ATI x800xl 256 MB, 1GB Crucial Ballistix) that I can only use with an AGP/DDR board. I think buying a Pentium-D 930 could be cheaper for me to solve this power problem. What do you think?
I don't remember exactly what the differences of power draw are between the D8XX and D9XX series. I think it may be about 20% less power consumption with D9XX at full load as compared to the D8's. I really don't know if that would help you or not. It might be less expensive to just find a used P5WD2 on eBay or Anandtech (who knows, maybe at Short-Media) than buying a new CPU. Frankly, I wouldn't really attempt uppity overclocks on that motherboard, well, at least until you get the MOSFETS cooled. If you run the FSB up too high, then you would probably need an active northbridge cooler (or just add a fan to the existing cooler, which is what I've done). If you do decide to get a D930, you might want to wait a couple weeks until the Conroes are available, which should drive down the prices of D9XX series.
If it were my system, I'd replace the motherboard before I'd replace the D820. Yeah, the D820s are hot little pricks, but they do overclock nicely. And your Ninja is a perfect heatsink for the 820.
(Was that rambling enough?)
EDIT: sorry, I forgot, you don't have DDR2 DRAM. well then, the P5WD2 is probably not an option. He just try your current board with MOSFET sinks and see how it goes. If you still have problems....
I just filled up my signature, as you can see PC building and overclocking is a hobby for me just like you guys. Actually I have two more PC's from 5-6 years ago that are still running but I did not list them. With this P5P800-SE I was planning to have a dual processor server/workstation. I did not tell the whole story, it was more like a disaster. When the motherboard was gone it actually destroyed the processor as well. First, I found that the processor was bad with the help of a friend's motherboard. Then, I bought a Pentium D-805 and found that motherboard was not working too. Now I am waiting for the motherboard, and I have pretty much lost my enthusiasm about the dual-core idea. But the parts that scattered around are still motivating me to put back the PC together. I think I can not explain to my wife why I want to buy another graphics card and more memory and a new motherboard to finish the project.
Cheers
Keep us informed. I hope you stay active here at Short-Media. You'll find us all a fairly easy going, pleasant lot.
See you all soon
PS: I added my fourth and favorite overclock in my signature. But I do not have this computer anymore I gave it to a close friend.
When I got my board (p5p 800se) back from rma, I sinked everything I could using thermal tape in case I had to do another rma. So far it seems to have worked. The sinks I used by the AGP slot were extremely hot! I rigged an 80mm fan to blow across my card thus cooling those sinks. The Big Typhoon cooler seems to have enough flow to keep the rest cool. Being cheap, I also ghetto-modded an old case I had to allow some better cooling. PSU is on top (outside) the case. (keeps that cooler also) and fitted a 120mm fan where the psu used to be. Right now the thing is a dust magnet, but the modded case keeps the cats out of it.
That's what I thought also, maybe someone with further experience can chime in. A loose sink is a bad thing. but after looking at ramsinks and realizing how hot vid card ram can get, I decided to give it a try. Just went to check on said rig. The sinks aren't real tight but definately warm (btw rig is running so sinks are still hot). When I set the rig up I did expect the board to fry again, so I chose to use the tape, planning on another RMA. I don't think I'd start lugging it off to LAN's without using something better.
FWIW, side note- On the board I got back from Asus, the on-board ethernet did not work. that's a reason for a return right there. After reading through the Asus forums this also is a common problem with these boards. I didn't want to wait so old nic card went in and is still running fine as we speak. knock wood.
If the metal sink touches the inductor core with a slight slide or shorts one of the surface mount resistors, I would expect a catastrophic result. My plan is to test the replacement board without any modification first, and after that tightly stick the heat sinks with arctic alumina adhesive. If it burns again, I will not bother RMA'ing again, I will move on to the current generation boards. I hope the network interface works on the replacement board, it was working on the one I sent. I am surprised that ASUS could release this kind of a weak board, so far I have seen big voltage droops, failing voltage regulators, and network interfaces.
I just looked at the mosfet heatsink on P5WD2-P, then I checked the mosfets on P5P800-SE. It seems that P5P800-SE also has the mounting holes for mosfet heatsink and it is compatible with the P5WD2 heatsink !! If I could ever find that heatsink .... you can see below
Sorry, I wasn't to clear.
I have moved on. This board is now a dedicated folding box, I stepped up to an MSI board for wife's machine (now I have 2 D805s running) If the Asus dies again I'm not out much, then I'll probibly upgrade that one also.
I've also got an Asus dual Xeon board that has alot of the same issues, but once you work around/deal with the issues it turned into a rocket. (1.6ghz running stable @ 2.9ghz.)
Any decent heatsink, Asus or third party, should solve overheating problems. With my boards (P5WD2s), I removed the stock heatsinks, cleaned the silicon-based thermal paste off the sinks and MOSFETS, and applied Arctic Silver 3 or 4, remounting the stock heatsinks. I replaced the stock plastic, spring-loaded mounting pins with small stainless steel bolts and nuts, insulating the nuts on the backside of the motherboard with non-metal washers. This mounting method causes a much more positive pressure of the heatsinks on the MOSFETS. If you do change out the paste or mount the sinks using a thermal adhesive, be very careful. The MOSFETs are tiny and are not raised off the motherboard surface very high. If you aren't careful, it is very, very easy to slop thermal paste on the electrical leads connected to the MOSFETs. It is advisable to put only a very thin layer of Arctic Silver on the bottom of the heatsink (but not on the MOSFETs) to just continue using the non-conductive, non-capacitive silicon paste.
IIRC, I did place them on each individual one, (may have used a couple of larger ones to act a a double) I do remember on my PC-DL, removing the mosfet sink and putting AS on them. It was kind of a pain as the ones in the center sat lower than the outer ones.
FWIW, I did the sink job on the new board, before I even tried to fire it up.
If it was a little black square-it got sinked! I was actually surprized how hot the ones by the AGP slot got. I too had the little square "brand" on one finger.:) I'm just surprized the thing is still running!:bigggrin:
Just dropped to check on this thread and discovered Mirage has joined in on the fun.
Well, Yeah, I used a Sythe Ninja and can tell you that in conjunction with a 120mm fan is extremely effective at cooling. The problem I had wasn't so much with the Ninja but with the case I was using. You see, My case doesn't have a provision for a rear venting fan in the vicinity of the cpu area. So, I had heat building up UNDER the Ninja thanks to the blistering hot mosfets with no where to go. My PSU though does vent air up and out from the CPU area but I guess it doesn't draw it quick enough.
The Thermaltake Typhoon however has the 120mm fan pointing DOWN onto the heatsink and CPU creating air flow below the heatsink thereby helping to cool the mosfets. I can stick my finger in there ( ehehehe ) and feel the air movement.
Mirage, I found a local shop that has pure copper heatsinks intended for attachment to memory sticks. They are individual sinks that you stick with the supplied tape onto the individual chips on a stick of memory. I just stuck them right onto the mosfets. I cut a few where needed. So far none are loose at all.
In addition I cut access holes for 2 60mm fans into the rear panel of my box, near the CPU area. These really help vent that oven around the CPU....even though I run open case! I can feel the hot coming out air when I hold my hand up to the two small fans.
I also swapped the ASUS Northbridge heatsink for a Silenex solid copper/blue led fan Northbridge cooler. Seems to do the job.
I have to agree that the P5P800SE is a disapointment that is only made bearable by the fact that it was so cheap and that I could re-cycle 2 gigs of memory and my pretty decent x850Pro (unlocked 16 pipes/clocked to XT PE) AGP video card.
My aim is now for a Conroe setup come this fall , once the new generation of motherboards come out. Unfortunately that means buying EVERYTHING new.... CPU, Memory, GPU .... OUCH!!!!
:banghead:
Cheers all
Paradox,
Thanks for the feedback. Your reply has been a good conincidence because I have received the P5P800-SE from RMA today and started reassembling the system. I installed a huge heatsink that covers the six MOSFETS behind the CPU socket using Arctic Alumina adhesive. I cut this heatsink from an old AMDK6 heatsink. I have no intention to RMA again if there is any problem. There is a picture below, not a good one though, but anyway. It seems to be cooling the mosfets, because I am able to do the finger testnow while running double Prime95s. The curved fins of AC Freezer7Pro is blowing air on the MOSFET heatsink while rear exhaust and 120 mm fan of the power supply withdraws the hot air out. I am working on overclocking now. I will let you know soon about the final results.
Wish me luck
Mirage, my memory isn't as good as it used to be- was there an elevation difference on the mosfets? That and a real noob question-how are those adhesives to work with? Thick, thin, 2 part epoxy? I think my board is due for something a little more permanent. I sinked, it lived, might have to keep it now.:D
Btw- I haven't used any of the TIM "glues" before, usually all i have to do is change the TIM under an existing sink and maybe put a fan on it.
Daxx, I cut an aluminum K6 CPU heatsink for the 6 mosfets near the CPU socket. They were getting too hot and I thought RAM sinks would not be sufficient. You can see the pictures of the mosfets in the previous pages of this thread including the heatsink I used in my previous post.
My overclock is now at 3.33 GHz
What did you get for motherboards? The overheating mosfets just seem to be an issue with the Asus P5P800se. (unless of course yours are getting to hot)
They are ramsinks iirc. I've got mine attached with the included TIM material right now. If you want permanent go with thermal epoxy. JB weld would stick the sink on, but i don't think it would transfer heat to well.
In a while I will see if I can find a link to the sinks I'm using. I'm still on my first cup of coffee and having to backspace a whole lot while typing.
Microcool Chipset PLL passive heatsink I also bought a smaller version (12mm*12mm*18mm)
@ mirage, That is about the same point I hit on stock volts. (170fsb) and folding temps are 58c to 60c. there is a droop mod for this board someplace, I just don't remember where I saw it now.
I got ASUS P5VDC-MX Socket T (LGA 775) VIA P4M800 PRO Micro ATX because they were open box and cheap. I'm trying to build up a cheap folding unit and put it on a diskless farm using LTSP. I hope my choice of motherboard wasn't a dud.
Good choice on the 805's though. You just can't match the price/performance ratio. Just can't.
I am using the Thermaltake Copper Ramsink on the Mosfets:
http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/memory/ramsink.htm
Mirage, my cpu doesn't get hotter than the low 50's under full load ...... BUT ....
I too suffer the dreaded Voltage droop.
My overclock is 3.4 right now on both stock voltage or anything else. If I raise the voltage I can go 3.6+ but the droop only gets worse so it isn't stable. I am 100% sure with a quality mobo I could get 3.6+ stable but then I'd have to buy ram and a video card. No thanks, I'm waiting for Conroe and the new harvest of motherboards from either Asus or Abit. If only ASUS had given us decent power regulation, this motherboard would be crack!