@famicon you're so wrong about this it's painful to read. I'm literally hurting when I read what you write. I'm taking pills right now to make it better. I'll be sending you a bill from my doctor. Quit it.
You're argument would be much more well received if you weren't trying to support your points by posting those videos of voiced-over 4chan threads. You're using the obscure 1% of the fanbase as a blanket example of the entire show.
As for the actual show, it won't fade into obscurity any more than classic cartoons like Dexter's Lab, Hey Arnold!, Ren and Stimpy, or Johnny Bravo have.
@UPSLynx >quit using sources I don't like! >you're wrong because i say so!
should i use ponychan or some other major image board to display the same thing? reddit or 9gag? the tons of porn thats been made? I won't throw out a random statistic, but I think it's higher than 1%.
I loled at the 4chan videos myself, funny yes, but it's a horrid piece to use a fact.
Now @famicon perhaps I was being a bit too subtle with my 'you can't generalize comment' and hell I may be doing more harm than good by writing this. Hell I don't know if you even bothered to read what I was writing or if you merely looked at the last sentence and said 'nope I'm right'
So let me spell it out for you.
I don't care what you think of the show or the fandom it honestly doesn't bother me, (Hell there are parts of the fandom, namely the r34 that I don't like and avoid like the plague) some people dig it some don't, that's how life works. I could walk up to someone on the street and say 'Hey isn't Doctor Who amazing?' and they could reply 'I don't care for it' or 'No it's terrible' again that's how life works.
What I do have a problem with is that you're immediately throwing my friends and I into a sweeping generalization based on evidence you've acquired from image boards. Seriously, find some credible evidence to back up your claims or stop shoveling your bs.
To elaborate further, no that isn't the argument Lynx is making, what he's telling you is that your argument is so full of logical fallacies and slippery slopes that it wouldn't hold up a thatch hut. People do make r34 yes but it's not the entire fandom and it certainly isn't much more than 5% at least. (A large number of subject porn doesn't mean that everyone in the fandom is trying their hand at it, in fact it may very well be, and I'm willing to bet money on the fact that it is in fact made by a very small amount of people.) He's also telling you, as am I that your sources shouldn't be treated as fact, hell this is like writing an entire research essay utilizing blogs and wikipedia and then being surprised when the teacher immediately throws it back at you with a big fat F.
@Ilriyas>i don't care, let me write to you how much i don't care
look, i know a group doesn't all do or act the same way, i just find it funny that so many people are sexualizing a kids show. Also find it funny at how protective you all are in downplaying the massive volumes of fanfaction, porn, and roleplaying thats floating around out there. If i felt like researching this I would, but I don't. I watched the show once, found it boring and kinda kiddy, and thinks its just a fad. Hell it's more or less following the same trends a new successful anime would have. I don't care that it is forming, just disturbed, like with furryism or vore or some other creepy stuff.
0
colapart legend, part devil... all manBalls deepIcrontian
edited May 2012
K, dropping the pony images for seriousness.
@Ilriyas>i don't care, let me write to you how much i don't care
look, i know a group doesn't all do or act the same way, i just find it funny that so many people are sexualizing a kids show. Also find it funny at how protective you all are in downplaying the massive volumes of fanfaction, porn, and roleplaying thats floating around out there. If i felt like researching this I would, but I don't. I watched the show once, found it boring and kinda kiddy, and thinks its just a fad. Hell it's more or less following the same trends a new successful anime would have. I don't care that it is forming, just disturbed, like with furryism or vore or some other creepy stuff.
This happens with anything that becomes popular, it's rule 34 and the percentage of people that are into that sort of thing is no greater for this than in any other popular media. You're talking like you know everything about who we are here on Icrontic and that you have some greater understanding of the MLP:FiM fandom and of the Brony community, then you claim to not research it. I honestly think this kind of ignorance and lack of making an attempt to understand and simply make judgements is horrid, it's the kind of mindset that destroys.
I could link you to dozens of pages to highlight the good the MLP:FiM fandom has done, I could link you to breathtaking art, amazing music, hilarious comics. I could, but here's the thing:
i don't care, let me write to you how much i don't care
So if you really don't care what we think here and all you're going to do is flamebait and be an ignorant ass I'm going to ask you to kindly leave.
Yes...downplaying...I'm totally doing that by agreeing with you that massive quantities of questionable material exists, yet at the same time arguing that very few individuals are responsible...
Anyways much to my chagrin I looked up the pahael topics boards, image free (Thank God) to see if your claim of 'so many people' was correct...it's not and please don't make me link it or quote it I like being a member of this site. The number of 'artists' responsible for this stuff according to the boards numbers in less than 50, yes out of a following of several million people 50 is totally a 'huge amount' in fact, averaging out, Lynx is right. Less than 1% is responsible. I'm not saying any of it is right, or that it's justified I'm simply telling you that you're wrong...on all counts.
Also ^This, there's a level of blatant hatred and misunderstanding that simply can't be allowed to slide.
(That and the History/English major in me...okay the English part. Was just giddy at the thought of pulling apart such a shoddy wonderful, well thought out argument.)
0
colapart legend, part devil... all manBalls deepIcrontian
Tch, the philosopher in me wanted to tear his argument limb from limb and leave him with nothing, but that's a bit brutal for Icrontic.
The number of 'artists' responsible for this stuff according to the boards numbers in less than 50, yes out of a following of several million people 50 is totally a 'huge amount' in fact, averaging out, Lynx is right. Less than 1% is responsible.
Artists, from one site Not including music made for it or the fanfics or the crossover art or the number of views per images on the one site at least
Look, I don't want you to spend an hour or 2 trying to scrounge up unlinked "evidence" for something I'm not even interested in. Because you're not going to convince me. Hell the main reason I'm in this thread is because the pony stuff has started being shoved down everyones throats internet wide. I'm sorry if you can't accept a single opinion that the show is average, girly and sexualized by men for whatever reason. I think it's creepy. So save your energy in posting pony pics instead. Maybe you should love and tolerate the fact that people will find your hobby a bit creepy.
You're either a terrible troll or a colossal waste of their time. Every comment you've made since joining has been some negative shit, and you've spent the vast majority of it in a thread arguing about something that you claim not to care about. Good riddance.
I'm done with this shit but I can't help but refute your argument again (Seriously, my grandfather was a communications/English major he would've smacked you upside the head for your 'argument')
@Famicon 2 or 3 hours? Ha dude I've typed this shit up playing Skyrim, 2 or 3 hours for some, an argument like this takes 5 minutes tops.
Also great to see how you're now trying to divert attention away from your original point. The argument you posed previous was that the show-centric r34 was wrong, and creepy, and widespread, don't pull the music and fanart into this because it's unrelated to the current debate. Similarly your point wasn't about the show being girly or average. In fact looking back on your posts you only ever argue that when one of us refutes your claims with evidence and a liberal sprinkling of logic.
Stop trying to turn this back onto me, I've already explained that I don't care about your opinion of the show. I know many people who dislike the show and have told me as such and thus we've ceased to discuss it simple as that.To reiterate my earlier statement I've said 'live and let live'
Again to reiterate (And if you actually bothered to read this wouldn't be necessary.) My problem is that you're categorizing my friends and I into a generalized assumption you've made based on inadequate evidence, logical fallacies, and...again slippery slope arguments (If this exists then all must be...)
Finally now we reach the end of a failing argument...personal attacks, I will admit I've made a few attacks, though rather on your prose and rhetoric as opposed to you as an individual. Furthermore I can and will waste the effort regardless of your opinions, I do have better things to do yes but it is a free country and as such I will exercise my freedom of speech which in this case includes disproving the arguments of an obvious bigot.
Now that I'm done my part of the argument allow me to make a personal remark in echo of @Tushon's statement.
Your membership here has been nothing but negative, intolerant bullshit and while I can't and won't influence your actions I'd appreciate it if you'd cease to waste our time with your inflammatory remarks.
It's very rarely that I dislike individuals, hell I can only recall one or two people of whom I am in open conflict with and both parties know when not to cross certain lines. Labeling myself and my friends...again to reiterate as creepy simply due to the fact we watch a cartoon, one that you could easily ignore is crossing a line.
thing is, evidence has sources. state something and then don't cite the source? Ok, you ARE an english major afterall.
again, waaaaaay too much effort being put in, which amuses me. Hell i never referred to you or your friends here as to liking to fap to ponies. I mean it's possible, but I didn't accuse you of it. But if you do, that's disgusting. I guess you could say you're generalizing my generalizations to attacks on yourself.
Here, you can take the win. I was bein genuine when i said stop putting more effort then need be, because i don't care. Like its funny that you keep posting with all seriousness, but also kinda sad. Next time i have a differing opinion I'll keep my mouth shut about it
colapart legend, part devil... all manBalls deepIcrontian
edited May 2012
thing is, evidence has sources. state something and then don't cite the source? Ok, you ARE an english major afterall.
again, waaaaaay too much effort being put in, which amuses me. Hell i never referred to you or your friends here as to liking to fap to ponies. I mean it's possible, but I didn't accuse you of it. But if you do, that's disgusting. I guess you could say you're generalizing my generalizations to attacks on yourself.
Here, you can take the win. I was bein genuine when i said stop putting more effort then need be, because i don't care. Like its funny that you keep posting with all seriousness, but also kinda sad. Next time i have a differing opinion I'll keep my mouth shut about it
I've had my doubts so I was taking you seriously, but it turns out you're just a troll who doesn't deserve to be on our forums, and should be dealt with as such.
Look Famicom, don't come into our house in a pony thread and start talking crap about the show and it's fans and not expect our community to react. You're nothing more than a poor shill and troll, and I will NOT tolerate that.
Don't come looking for trouble on Icrontic. We don't roll like that.
This is wrong on so many levels. And the fact that you think it's ok, and are willing to talk about it publicly, makes it exponentially worse.
I'm creeped out by you! I mean, men named Dan have been murderers, rapist and otherwise in possession of ill-disposition in the past, so I should assume that about you, amirite?
You just aren't getting it, dude. What you are doing is stepping into someone else's house, who has interests that differ from your own, and attempting to shit all over the place and then act surprised when people are irritated or react, hence why I warned way back when to stop feeding trolls. You chose to enter the pony thread and chose to continue commenting. I don't know if you can't tell the difference between conversation and trolling, but you are on the later side even if you don't realize it. I don't even like ponies, but I love this community and what you are describing is not part of it. We debate and talk about each others interest all the time and lie on whatever number of sides surround an issue, but we don't shit on other people's enjoyment (in general ... there are obvious legality implications out there).
0
Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
We here on Icrontic let the Bronies be, @Famicon . The Bronies have been told not to pony us in non-pony threads any more, and they respect that reasonably well now.
I've been here 7+ years, since before Icrontic used this software. If you want respect for your opinion, respect other folks' opinions and the right for them to have them also. Took me a while to learn that, but it does apply here for all who want to be welcome here long-term.
To be fair, @straight_Man, I was citing sources, it wasn't til the bronies stopped paying attention to the evidence I decided to troll. I think the insinuation that MLP is both a fad and has a devoted populus of shippers, fan fic writers, and porn (which is a lot like a popular anime) sent them off the deep end. Whatevs tho, this turned into a joke when people started ignoring facts and evidence
0
Straight_ManGeeky, in my own wayNaples, FLIcrontian
edited May 2012
Well, to them the show is the major evidence. The fan culture around it is a bonus in some ways, and a detriment in others.
You did not cite enough unimpeachable sources, my Dad was a lawyer who used sources and even nursery rhyme quotes to win cases all the way to the US Supreme Court. He had me check his briefs to see if they made sense to me. He taught me very well to look deeply into evidence and precedence, and not trust isolated sources.
I do not argue for the Bronies, or against them, for I have beliefs I cannot prove also. I believe in Love and Caring and mutual respect.
I am Christian and will not be nay-said in my faith. Others here are of other faiths or of no faith. They have the right to their faith or lack thereof as much as I have the right to mine.
I am not coming off as high-and-mighty deliberately. I am simply arguing for the simple decency of mutual right to opinions and know that no-one, myself definitely included, has the right to denigrate others (or strongly seem to) because their choices are imperfect.
I believe NO-ONE on this Earth currently is perfect, so none have a right to act or try to act as judge and jury in one. So, while I do not judge you I do say do not judge when you are imperfect also.
Even US judges are trained to apply the law, not personal judgement. In a forum, each forum has its own rules that are developed by mutual assent-- many times unwritten rules. I had to learn Icrontic's rules, and so do you.
Tushon has solid influence with the owners/admins of this forum. So do I. "Listen" to us, carefully. I am 58+ years old and I am not joking when I say that you are very probably on the edge of being at least suspended here as a user. Enough said, I will shut up now.
Comments
You're argument would be much more well received if you weren't trying to support your points by posting those videos of voiced-over 4chan threads. You're using the obscure 1% of the fanbase as a blanket example of the entire show.
As for the actual show, it won't fade into obscurity any more than classic cartoons like Dexter's Lab, Hey Arnold!, Ren and Stimpy, or Johnny Bravo have.
>quit using sources I don't like!
>you're wrong because i say so!
should i use ponychan or some other major image board to display the same thing? reddit or 9gag? the tons of porn thats been made? I won't throw out a random statistic, but I think it's higher than 1%.
Now @famicon perhaps I was being a bit too subtle with my 'you can't generalize comment' and hell I may be doing more harm than good by writing this. Hell I don't know if you even bothered to read what I was writing or if you merely looked at the last sentence and said 'nope I'm right'
So let me spell it out for you.
I don't care what you think of the show or the fandom it honestly doesn't bother me, (Hell there are parts of the fandom, namely the r34 that I don't like and avoid like the plague) some people dig it some don't, that's how life works. I could walk up to someone on the street and say 'Hey isn't Doctor Who amazing?' and they could reply 'I don't care for it' or 'No it's terrible' again that's how life works.
What I do have a problem with is that you're immediately throwing my friends and I into a sweeping generalization based on evidence you've acquired from image boards. Seriously, find some credible evidence to back up your claims or stop shoveling your bs.
To elaborate further, no that isn't the argument Lynx is making, what he's telling you is that your argument is so full of logical fallacies and slippery slopes that it wouldn't hold up a thatch hut. People do make r34 yes but it's not the entire fandom and it certainly isn't much more than 5% at least. (A large number of subject porn doesn't mean that everyone in the fandom is trying their hand at it, in fact it may very well be, and I'm willing to bet money on the fact that it is in fact made by a very small amount of people.) He's also telling you, as am I that your sources shouldn't be treated as fact, hell this is like writing an entire research essay utilizing blogs and wikipedia and then being surprised when the teacher immediately throws it back at you with a big fat F.
look, i know a group doesn't all do or act the same way, i just find it funny that so many people are sexualizing a kids show. Also find it funny at how protective you all are in downplaying the massive volumes of fanfaction, porn, and roleplaying thats floating around out there. If i felt like researching this I would, but I don't. I watched the show once, found it boring and kinda kiddy, and thinks its just a fad. Hell it's more or less following the same trends a new successful anime would have. I don't care that it is forming, just disturbed, like with furryism or vore or some other creepy stuff.
This happens with anything that becomes popular, it's rule 34 and the percentage of people that are into that sort of thing is no greater for this than in any other popular media. You're talking like you know everything about who we are here on Icrontic and that you have some greater understanding of the MLP:FiM fandom and of the Brony community, then you claim to not research it. I honestly think this kind of ignorance and lack of making an attempt to understand and simply make judgements is horrid, it's the kind of mindset that destroys.
I could link you to dozens of pages to highlight the good the MLP:FiM fandom has done, I could link you to breathtaking art, amazing music, hilarious comics. I could, but here's the thing:
So if you really don't care what we think here and all you're going to do is flamebait and be an ignorant ass I'm going to ask you to kindly leave.
Anyways much to my chagrin I looked up the pahael topics boards, image free (Thank God) to see if your claim of 'so many people' was correct...it's not and please don't make me link it or quote it I like being a member of this site. The number of 'artists' responsible for this stuff according to the boards numbers in less than 50, yes out of a following of several million people 50 is totally a 'huge amount' in fact, averaging out, Lynx is right. Less than 1% is responsible. I'm not saying any of it is right, or that it's justified I'm simply telling you that you're wrong...on all counts.
Eh, what can you do?
(That and the History/English major in me...okay the English part. Was just giddy at the thought of pulling apart such a
shoddywonderful, well thought out argument.)Not including music made for it
or the fanfics
or the crossover art
or the number of views per images on the one site at least
Look, I don't want you to spend an hour or 2 trying to scrounge up unlinked "evidence" for something I'm not even interested in. Because you're not going to convince me. Hell the main reason I'm in this thread is because the pony stuff has started being shoved down everyones throats internet wide. I'm sorry if you can't accept a single opinion that the show is average, girly and sexualized by men for whatever reason. I think it's creepy. So save your energy in posting pony pics instead. Maybe you should love and tolerate the fact that people will find your hobby a bit creepy.
I'm done with this shit but I can't help but refute your argument again (Seriously, my grandfather was a communications/English major he would've smacked you upside the head for your 'argument')
@Famicon 2 or 3 hours? Ha dude I've typed this shit up playing Skyrim, 2 or 3 hours for some, an argument like this takes 5 minutes tops.
Also great to see how you're now trying to divert attention away from your original point. The argument you posed previous was that the show-centric r34 was wrong, and creepy, and widespread, don't pull the music and fanart into this because it's unrelated to the current debate. Similarly your point wasn't about the show being girly or average. In fact looking back on your posts you only ever argue that when one of us refutes your claims with evidence and a liberal sprinkling of logic.
Stop trying to turn this back onto me, I've already explained that I don't care about your opinion of the show. I know many people who dislike the show and have told me as such and thus we've ceased to discuss it simple as that.To reiterate my earlier statement I've said 'live and let live'
Again to reiterate (And if you actually bothered to read this wouldn't be necessary.) My problem is that you're categorizing my friends and I into a generalized assumption you've made based on inadequate evidence, logical fallacies, and...again slippery slope arguments (If this exists then all must be...)
Finally now we reach the end of a failing argument...personal attacks, I will admit I've made a few attacks, though rather on your prose and rhetoric as opposed to you as an individual. Furthermore I can and will waste the effort regardless of your opinions, I do have better things to do yes but it is a free country and as such I will exercise my freedom of speech which in this case includes disproving the arguments of an obvious bigot.
Now that I'm done my part of the argument allow me to make a personal remark in echo of @Tushon's statement.
Your membership here has been nothing but negative, intolerant bullshit and while I can't and won't influence your actions I'd appreciate it if you'd cease to waste our time with your inflammatory remarks.
It's very rarely that I dislike individuals, hell I can only recall one or two people of whom I am in open conflict with and both parties know when not to cross certain lines. Labeling myself and my friends...again to reiterate as creepy simply due to the fact we watch a cartoon, one that you could easily ignore is crossing a line.
again, waaaaaay too much effort being put in, which amuses me. Hell i never referred to you or your friends here as to liking to fap to ponies. I mean it's possible, but I didn't accuse you of it. But if you do, that's disgusting. I guess you could say you're generalizing my generalizations to attacks on yourself.
Here, you can take the win. I was bein genuine when i said stop putting more effort then need be, because i don't care. Like its funny that you keep posting with all seriousness, but also kinda sad. Next time i have a differing opinion I'll keep my mouth shut about it
Don't come looking for trouble on Icrontic. We don't roll like that.
This is wrong on so many levels. And the fact that you think it's ok, and are willing to talk about it publicly, makes it exponentially worse.
/sarcasm
Like seriously, if anyone doesn't mesh with your opinion about ponies, you're instantly wrong and ridiculed?
I've been here 7+ years, since before Icrontic used this software. If you want respect for your opinion, respect other folks' opinions and the right for them to have them also. Took me a while to learn that, but it does apply here for all who want to be welcome here long-term.
John.
You did not cite enough unimpeachable sources, my Dad was a lawyer who used sources and even nursery rhyme quotes to win cases all the way to the US Supreme Court. He had me check his briefs to see if they made sense to me. He taught me very well to look deeply into evidence and precedence, and not trust isolated sources.
I do not argue for the Bronies, or against them, for I have beliefs I cannot prove also. I believe in Love and Caring and mutual respect.
I am Christian and will not be nay-said in my faith. Others here are of other faiths or of no faith. They have the right to their faith or lack thereof as much as I have the right to mine.
I am not coming off as high-and-mighty deliberately. I am simply arguing for the simple decency of mutual right to opinions and know that no-one, myself definitely included, has the right to denigrate others (or strongly seem to) because their choices are imperfect.
I believe NO-ONE on this Earth currently is perfect, so none have a right to act or try to act as judge and jury in one. So, while I do not judge you I do say do not judge when you are imperfect also.
Even US judges are trained to apply the law, not personal judgement. In a forum, each forum has its own rules that are developed by mutual assent-- many times unwritten rules. I had to learn Icrontic's rules, and so do you.
Tushon has solid influence with the owners/admins of this forum. So do I. "Listen" to us, carefully. I am 58+ years old and I am not joking when I say that you are very probably on the edge of being at least suspended here as a user. Enough said, I will shut up now.
John.