I agree, Expert mode requires 4 or 5 hours. We got through two waves in 3 hours. Then some asshole had to leave because it got too late. (Did you guys beat wave 3? :P) You had to be much more vigilant about letting the occasional bot slip through the front line compared to the original mode. Also, crit resistance is something you want to take early on as most bots have crit attacks. I also noticed something last night. This might just be my stone age computer, but my GPU usually crashes once or twice while playing MvM. With Expert Mode playing for 3 hours, the GPU driver crashed 4 times. I attribute this to Expert mode being more graphic intensive as more bots are on the screen at a time and more effects (crit weapons) are being processed at a time than the original mode.
We finally did beat wave 3, but it was extremely tight. We gave in on Wave 4. Wave 4 seemed easier than 3, actually, but we just didn't have it in us anymore. You got replaced with a pretty good pub, but we ended up bailing on him.
I'm beginning to think that maybe a medic isn't as important in expert as he would be in hard. The bots do such an extra amount of damage that even with over-heal we were dying pretty quickly without resists. Having a medic also reduces our DPS even if the medic is using the Kritzkrieg, because he will for the most part he will only get the kritz or uber off once and uses the canteen power-ups afterward. @Midga can either confirm or deny this as he is our medic usually, but it's just what I noticed from my perspective.
I propose in future matches we have someone that goes medic at the beginning of the round to help lay down a kritz sticky trap but then switches back to another class with a better DPS and puts all of their money into that class instead.
I'm beginning to think that maybe a medic isn't as important in expert as he would be in hard. The bots do such an extra amount of damage that even with over-heal we were dying pretty quickly without resists. Having a medic also reduces our DPS even if the medic is using the Kritzkrieg, because he will for the most part he will only get the kritz or uber off once and uses the canteen power-ups afterward. @Midga can either confirm or deny this as he is our medic usually, but it's just what I noticed from my perspective.
I propose in future matches we have someone that goes medic at the beginning of the round to help lay down a kritz sticky trap but then switches back to another class with a better DPS and puts all of their money into that class instead.
I said that too, while I was playing, even as medic being my favorite class to play, I don't think the medic is very useful in extreemly high-damage situations. If keeping your wand on your teammate is not enough to keep him alive while retreating, you might as well not have been there. Other classes also become less useful, like the engineer and sniper. Basically, any class which relies on the teammates to help make their strategy work, or who needs their back watched while they do their thing, simply can't function in the hectic environment of Expert mode. All six players have to go in with high DPS classes, and focus all their money on damage and protection. Any attempt to play a support role seems wasted.
On our last go before giving up Wednesday, we planned hard. We found a perfect spot, we set up a base, and had a plan to protect it, with contingencies in place for possible bot behaviour. We all did our job correctly, and got rolled almost instantly. We did worse that round than previous rounds when we just ran around shooting bots at each our own discretion. That was the thing that brought us down, and so we quit.
Maybe they'll find some way to adjust it, but for now Expert mode punishes players for trying to work together, and that's not very fun.
I disagree completely about the Engineer. That sentry is crucial during the insane scout-rush waves (Wave three had A HUNDRED SCOUTS), and having that gun on the point for cleanup is basically essential.
And CB, we had a much better experience yesterday. I disagree that teamwork is punished. It actually becomes far more important. We played for about four hours last night and got through three waves, and teamwork became essential.
Yeah the Sentry has an insane amount of DPS and can kill Scout and Pyro bots so quickly. Sentry placement however becomes much more important on expert. I actually think Sniper might be a decent class in expert if you can guarantee headshots on medics; from what I understand if you can chain headshots on the Giant-bots you can take them down pretty quick. For the sniper though it's about surviving the little guys which is where Jarate comes into play as it acts like both the spy sapper and the normal mini crit AoE.
I gained a new respect for the Pyro last night once I saw how far back you can push the bomb carrier and how you can stall Giant-bots especially the super Scout. It seemed glitched though since there were times on ramps where I just couldn't airblast them either up or down the ramp.
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midga"There's so much hot dog in Rome" ~digi(> ^.(> O_o)>Icrontian
That was some pretty hot pyroing. Those airblasts did us a hell of a lot of good.
I disagree about the medic being mostly useless, but I am a bit biased. Thing is, I saw y'all's health, and I know when I was the difference between you being able to stay in the fight or not. I also agree with your points to some extent, and that's why I said I wouldn't be running Kritz next time I run expert. It just doesn't have the healing you need. I'm gonna run QF and put all my buffs into healing, staying alive, and sharing my kritz canteens (or uber canteens, cause seriously, being able to uber someone, break off, and then uber/heal someone else immediately is pretty amazing). If that doesn't feel like it's powerful enough, I might concede. DPS doesn't do you a damn bit of good if you have to keep running back for health or back from respawning.
I would love to but my Mondays are dynamic with DigiKid's Soccer practice and the possibility of going to a buddy's place for MNF. If we do not go anywhere for MNF then I will be home ~7:30 Pacific (which is probably too late to start an expert run) and would love another go at those metalic @$$40!3$.
If you find others, have at it. I'll check with you when I get home. If you're planning a later run and you'll have me, I'll be home by 7:30 ready to go.
Comments
I propose in future matches we have someone that goes medic at the beginning of the round to help lay down a kritz sticky trap but then switches back to another class with a better DPS and puts all of their money into that class instead.
On our last go before giving up Wednesday, we planned hard. We found a perfect spot, we set up a base, and had a plan to protect it, with contingencies in place for possible bot behaviour. We all did our job correctly, and got rolled almost instantly. We did worse that round than previous rounds when we just ran around shooting bots at each our own discretion. That was the thing that brought us down, and so we quit.
Maybe they'll find some way to adjust it, but for now Expert mode punishes players for trying to work together, and that's not very fun.
I gained a new respect for the Pyro last night once I saw how far back you can push the bomb carrier and how you can stall Giant-bots especially the super Scout. It seemed glitched though since there were times on ramps where I just couldn't airblast them either up or down the ramp.
I disagree about the medic being mostly useless, but I am a bit biased. Thing is, I saw y'all's health, and I know when I was the difference between you being able to stay in the fight or not. I also agree with your points to some extent, and that's why I said I wouldn't be running Kritz next time I run expert. It just doesn't have the healing you need. I'm gonna run QF and put all my buffs into healing, staying alive, and sharing my kritz canteens (or uber canteens, cause seriously, being able to uber someone, break off, and then uber/heal someone else immediately is pretty amazing). If that doesn't feel like it's powerful enough, I might concede. DPS doesn't do you a damn bit of good if you have to keep running back for health or back from respawning.
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If you find others, have at it. I'll check with you when I get home. If you're planning a later run and you'll have me, I'll be home by 7:30 ready to go.