WARNING: Catalyst 3.8's Overheating Radeon 9800's

SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
edited November 2003 in Hardware
icon4.gif WARNING: ATI R300/350/360 USERS SHOULD READ icon4.gif

I've got some disturbing news that, if left unchecked on your system, will severely damage your video card and monitor systems to the point of RMA.

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#1: R300 Overheating Issues With Catalyst 3.8's:

Reported Cards Affected:
All Radeon 9800 XT's
All Radeon 9800 Pro's
All Radeon 9800 Non-Pro's
All Radeon 9700 Pro's soft-modded to 9800 series.
All Radeon 9700 Non-Pro's soft-modded to 9800 series.
All Radeon 9500's soft modded to 9800 series.

Possible Cards Affected:
All Radeon 9700 Pro's
All Radeon 9700 Non-Pro's

Note: Radeon 9600, 9200, 9100, 9000, 8500 or previous generations are NOT affected by this serious overheating issue.

Software Causing Hardware Failure:
ATI's Catalyst 3.8 Driver Series
OMEGA Catalyst 3.8 Driver Series

1) While we're not quite sure what part of the Catalyst 3.8 drivers are causing this, some part of the driver (whether it's the new VPU Recovery feature, HyperZ Enhancements or the ATI Overclocking software) is causing the core on BBA and OEM Radeon cards that are identified as "RADEON 9800 XT", "RADEON 9800 PRO" and "RADEON 9800" in Windows to have their GPU's overheat by as much as 15*C over normal during 3D graphics sessions. This has caused a number of fans on the Radeon 9800 XT series to fail, allowing the heat to completely destroy the card.

This news is especially important for individuals who performed the 9800 to 9800 Pro BIOS flash and did not include additional cooling on your card, as the GPU is already overclocked and producing more heat than normal.

As a safety precaution, I am strongly encouraging that anyone with any of the affected cards above roll their drivers back to the Omega Catalyst 3.7 drivers or the ATI Catalyst 3.7 drivers, as they are verified not to cause this overheating issue.

I did some testing with my Radeon 9800 NP BIOS-flashed to a 9800 Pro. The results are not encouraging.

Running looping 3DMark2003 for 30 minutes and utilizing a temperature probe on my GPU (regular cooling), the following temperatures were recorded:

Catalyst 3.8: 135 Fahrenheit
Catalyst 3.7: 117 Fahrenheit

The heatsink on my Sapphire Atlantis 9800 was so hot during the Catalyst 3.8 test that I burnt my hand when I accidently touched it. :(

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#2: Monitor Refresh Rate Problem With Catalyst 3.8's

Updated Information Regarding Monitor Refresh Rate Problem Available! - Radeon 9700 & Radeon 9600 Series Affected!

Reported Cards Affected:
All Radeon 9800 Series (XT/AIW/Pro/Non-Pro)
All Radeon 9700 Series (AIW/Pro/Non-Pro)
All Radeon 9600 Series (Pro/Non-Pro)
All Radeon 9500 Series (Pro/Non-Pro)

Possible Cards Affected:
All Other Dual-Head Radeon Cards

The Catalyst 3.8's seem to have a bug in some systems that allows the driver to process the SECONDARY adapter settings when a game is started and tries to switch to the resolution and refresh rate specified in the program.

Normally, the card is limited by the INF file settings for the PRIMARY adapter, so that no resolution or refresh rate is attempted that is beyond the capability of the monitor hardware. But in the 3.8's, it seems to be processing the SECONDARY adapter settings first. In a system without a monitor plugged into the second adapter, there is no INF file limiting refresh rates and resolutions, so, the system is trying to force refresh rates and resolutions beyond what the monitor on the PRIMARY adapter is capable of.

So instead of having the monitor "flicker" once when it switches to the desired resolution/refresh, monitors are "flickering" between 4 and 8 times, with resolutions and refresh rates that are beyond the capability of the actual monitor.

As a result, some monitors have been damaged, while others have blinked out and recovered. Some users monitors are under warranty and can be RMA'd, but for those who don't have a monitor under warranty, their monitor is damaged and they must buy a new one.

Again, as a safety precaution, I am strongly encouraging that anyone with any of the affected cards above roll their drivers back to the Omega Catalyst 3.7 drivers or the ATI Catalyst 3.7 drivers, as they are verified not to cause this monitor refresh-related problem.

Catalyst 3.7 Download Locations:

Windows 2000/XP
Catalyst 3.7 :: Control Panel

Windows 98/Me
Catalyst 3.7 :: Control Panel

I'll keep you all apprised of the situation.
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Comments

  • leishi85leishi85 Grand Rapids, MI Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    What's BBA??
    i have a gigacube 9800pro, i don't know if mine is affected.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    leishi85 said
    What's BBA??
    i have a gigacube 9800pro, i don't know if mine is affected.

    BBA = Built By ATI

    ALL manufacturers cards are affected.

    PowerColor, Sapphire, ATI, Hercules, Connect3D, GigaCube, FIC, Crucial, umm.... ALL OF THEM. :)
  • leishi85leishi85 Grand Rapids, MI Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    ahh, so u advise me to change back to cat 3.7?
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    Yes.
  • TheBaronTheBaron Austin, TX
    edited October 2003
    actually i have started seeing this problem on a 9700 pro not softmodded at all. i suddenly had a ton of artifacts and then the system gave out on me. i'll try downgrading
  • Al_CapownAl_Capown
    makes a note to not use 3.8's when his BBA 9800 Pro 256 comes on thursday
     Indiana
    edited October 2003
    makes a note to not use 3.8's when his BBA 9800 Pro 256 comes on thursday
  • OoOMinhOoOOoOMinhOoO
    edited October 2003
    Where can I get the 3.7 drivers?
  • pseudonympseudonym Michigan Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    GAAAAAAAAAAA.....

    Need linky to 3.7s. Hmmmm, maybe its still in that directory they install to.....
  • a2jfreaka2jfreak Houston, TX Member
    edited October 2003
    So, it's like the Cat3.8 drivers are TOO efficient, eh? That's like writing code in ASM that is so tight it burns up the CPU. :D

    // Edit: Yes I'm kidding, I actually did read your post. Secondary video, blah blah blah.
  • panzerkwpanzerkw New York City
    edited October 2003
    Whew...I'm glad, for once, that I don't have a soft modded 9700 Pro.
  • DanGDanG I AM CANADIAN Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Previous ATI cats for Windows XP http://www.ati.com/support/products/radeonwinxppreviousdrivers.html
    Previous ATI cats for Windows 2000 Pro http://www.ati.com/support/products/radeonwin2kpreviousdrivers.html
    Previous ATI cats for Windows Me(shame on you for still running Me) http://www.ati.com/support/products/radeonwinmepreviousdrivers.html
    Previous ATI cats for Windows 98 http://www.ati.com/support/products/radeonwinmepreviousdrivers.html
  • TheBaronTheBaron Austin, TX
    edited October 2003
    or for future reference, when you go to pick out drivers, after you select your os and driver type on the ati website, theres a link at the bottom for "previous driver revisions"
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    //Added Drivers to Main Post.

    Good job DanG :D
  • NecropolisNecropolis Hawarden, Wales Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    Are the new Omega drivers (which are "meant" to be based on the cat 3.9's) affected with the same problem?
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    Omega's new drivers are based off of the Dell leaked Catalyst 3.8.5 drivers (they aren't the Cat 3.8's and they aren't the Cat 3.9's, they are an in-between development stepping). :)

    As for whether or not they fix these problems, I have no data on them to give you an answer. I'll see what I can find on them.
  • WuGgaRoOWuGgaRoO Not in the shower Icrontian
    edited October 2003
    this is ridicilious.....how dumb does ATi have to be to release this type of driver? i mean jesus...ohwell...time to go watercooling i suppose
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    WuGgaRoO had this to say
    this is ridicilious.....how dumb does ATi have to be to release this type of driver? i mean jesus...ohwell...time to go watercooling i suppose

    Pretty dumb if you ask me. I would love to know how nobody found out about this before the drivers were released.

    Forget watercooling... Prometeia cooled R360! :eek:
  • TropicalTropical
    edited October 2003
    this is greatly appreciated :thumbsup: my computer was always locking up in some games and I thought it was because of overclocking my computer to its limit. I guess is back to the bios.
  • SpinnerSpinner Birmingham, UK
    edited October 2003
    Well that's just great, my main rig's sitting 120 miles away, fully up, and running the CAT 3.8's. Doh! he he.

    Any word on what ATI have to say for themsevles?
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    ATI has been alerted of the issue and they are conducting lab tests in near-perfect conditions to check the heat output of the 9800 cards.

    Hopefully, something official turns up, like a Catalyst 3.8 hotfix or something to that effect If not, thank god that the Catalyst 3.9's are only a about 3 weeks away.
  • karatekidkaratekid Ogdensburg, NY
    edited October 2003
    Sorry to go off topic, but what is this about modding a 9500 Pro to a 9800? I have never heard of such a mod.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    Humm.... come to think of it there isn't one. :)
    My bad!

    There's only the 9500 -> 9700 -> 9800 & 9800 Pro (if O/C'd) AFAIK.
  • DisvengeanceDisvengeance
    edited October 2003
    well that seems to explain why mine just DIED ON ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, grrr dont they test these things before releasing?

    after it died i felt the heatsink and it almost burned me (slight exaggeration)
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    DAMN!

    Could you post information regarding what card you had (manufacturer, RAM type and ns rating) and what clockrates you had the card running at?

    That sucks man! :(:(:(
  • DisvengeanceDisvengeance
    edited October 2003
    My card was a radeon 9800 pro a-i-w, it was running at stock speeds, im not sure what kind of ram, but ill update in the morning.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    Oh lordy that sucks big time!
  • DisvengeanceDisvengeance
    edited October 2003
    yes, yes it does, good thing theres always RMA
  • karatekidkaratekid Ogdensburg, NY
    edited October 2003
    SimGuy had this to say
    Humm.... come to think of it there isn't one. :)
    My bad!

    There's only the 9500 -> 9700 -> 9800 & 9800 Pro (if O/C'd) AFAIK.
    Sigh, you got my hopes up :(. Anyway ...

    Seems ATI put so much effort into adding stuff to these drivers they forgot to do Quality Control. Hopefully they fix this quickly. Sounds like either the overclocking tool has a bug in it, or the driver sends the core into some type of infinite loop. I am also going to take a wild guess and say that since they obviously did not cetch this problem, they most likely did not cetch it in the 3.8.5 drivers.

    Come on ATI, what is up with this, don't go dropping the ball on us now.
  • SimGuySimGuy Ottawa, Canada
    edited October 2003
    It sounds like the overclocking tool is causing the overheating problem, with VPU Recovery tool compounding the issue.

    As for the monitor refresh problems, it's a driver programming error that should have been caught in Quality Control.

    I never noticed it during the 3.8 beta, but then again I only use 1 monitor. As well, during the 3.8 beta, I never bothered overclocking my card (past the 9800 NP -> Pro overclock due to BIOS flash) as I have no need to O/C, therefore I never ran into the overheating issue. As well, I didn't ever bother to install a thermal probe on the R350 core. I figured as long as the card was still working, I don't care how hot it gets, but 135 F is a little excessive. I suppose we all should have checked this a little closer before giving ATI the go ahead to launch. :(
  • DisvengeanceDisvengeance
    edited October 2003
    :banghead: .............:werr:

    my card wasnt even overclocked, and it got very hot
This discussion has been closed.