This can affect LCD monitors. Read my post on the bottom of page 3 and how it affected my Samsung. Scarry stuff and ATI better fix or recall it soon or I see a bit class action against them for damaging equip. This is the kind of stuff that can make or break a company in a heartbeat.
This thread has certainly put Short-Media on the map. When these issues first came up, I followed a link to this thread from another forum. Now, I'm seeing these links everywhere. This thread is much more focused than the 6 or so threads going on at Rage3D (too many flame wars). Anyway, keep up the good work.
BTW, I have a 9800 np and a 17" LCD and went back to the 3.7's a couple of days ago. Why take the risk? But ATi had better get this resolved because, like Tubby suggested, this could hurt them.
CAG had this to say This thread has certainly put Short-Media on the map. When these issues first came up, I followed a link to this thread from another forum. Now, I'm seeing these links everywhere. This thread is much more focused .....
CAG:
Thank you for the commendations. That focus is what we strive for here.
SimGuy had this to say Welcome to Short-Media BetrayerX
That number of dead monitors have come from the following sources:
Rage3D Forums, myself, friends of mine, people who have PM'ed me on Short-Media and any and all e-mails I have received regarding this issue.
The number continues to grow.
Whoah...thnx for answering so fast.
This next argument might cause some flames and it is not intended, but here it goes anyway:
How many do you think (besides your case) that are trully genuine?
This has a little bit from anything, from nvidia people (or fanboys) taking advantage from this, to the fact that the monitor might have died from many other reasons....God's will, it was old, problems between the keyboard and the chair, and also the theory included (I don't like to discard anything).
I had a monitor dying on me 3 weeks ago, but it's a fact it had 6 years old and I have a lot of electrical problems in my area (blackouts, power surges...you name it).
I can't say anything for the monitors dying issue, but I'm sorry.
I used the 3.8 on my 9700np bios flashed to 9700 PRO. It can still do 400MHz on the core. Also a friend of mine got a 9800np that I bios flashed to a Pro (both cards with the obvious extra cooling of course) and reported me no issues anyway. Yet I reverted to 3.7, just to be sure.
Well for those thinking it doesn't happen, or are suspicious of the 3.8's causeig it, then I have a question for you all.
I have a 9700pro aiw. Specs are in my sig.
As you can see, nothing is overclocked, nothing is modded, and everything is stock, as it was comeing outta the box. The 9700pro aiw is a built buy, true blue ati card.
here are my findings:
-3.5/3.6/3.7+mmc8.7+remotewonder2.1 = no loseing monitor signal. Useing the 3.5 right now, since the 32bit gl bug is in the 3.6 and 3.7's. Been this way for 3 days now, without a flaw or problem one.
-3.8+mmc8.7+remotewonder2.1 = After about an hr, in very few cases, sometimes 2 hrs, I simply lose signal to the monitor. No warning, no nothing, just lose signal. I reboot, and everythings fine again, until about another hr, then I lose signal again. I tested it with mmc8.1, and older remote wonder, as well, and did the exact same thing with useing the 3.8's.
So, my question proposed to you all is, if this is NOT the 3.8's doing this, then what is it, and why would I be fine, useing the cat 3.5's when that's ALL I changed?, nothing else changed, and even useing the older mmc and remote wonder, with the 3.8's, I still lost signal, so what else would it be?
Usieng deduction, well, common sense would tell you, yeah there is definately something strange about the 3.8's, as NO other drivers have done this. So I say this to you, don't you think it's odd that all I have done is change the drivers around and antyhing with the 3.8's I get the signal loss, yet any combo of stuff and drivers below the 3.8's don't give me the issue, doesn't this sound od to you all?? Unless somone else can come up with a viable answer as to why this is happening, I have no other reason to believe otherwise than it is the 3.8's causeing issues, no matter WHAT ati and thier crew says, how else would you explain it if it's not the 3.8's.
NOTE: this is a discussion, I'm not made or uptight, jsut pointing out some things is all, so please don't start flameing, this thread is so pleasent right now, I love debates, without flames .....shoulda been a lawyer, but then I'm not an A**hole like they are, heh, so i guess I'de not make a good lawyer.
From what I'm reading in the stickied thread at Rage3D here http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33717516 , monitors are dropping like flies (my rig is 3-months old and I'm sooo happy I went back to the 3.7's when I did). Here's one example:
"...I just bought a 9800PRO 256mb 2 days ago and installed it with a fresh copy of XPpro and installed drivers from the CD(3.5 I think?) anyways I got everything setup and got the latest drivers for everything but my videocard. I played Halo/rtcw for about 3-4 hours then I read a review of the new 3.8's on anandtech and downloaded them and installed them. When I loaded up Halo I got a message from my monitor saying the Frequency was out of range and then it reset it's resolution about 5 times very fast(heard 5 clicks) and then I got nothing but a black screen. I have since tried using my monitor on a different system and with different cards but it wont engage(the light just stays orange and wont turn on to green). Is my monitor broken? or is there a fix?"
And my favorite:
"My problems started with Cat 3.7. Shortly after installing 3.7 my dog died. Next, I upgraded to the 3.8s and I haven't been able to achieve an erection since then. What's up with that?"
My guess is that the last one isn't driver-related.
Thank you for the thoughtful manner in which you put forth your question. I am a healthy skeptic - it's hard to convince me of anything, and I have been reading all the "How ridiculous is this?" posts and threads all over the web. But I must say, this problem is being experienced by far too many people to be coincidental.
My opinion thus far is: There is definitely a problem with the Catalyst 3.8s. I will not speculate as to the exact nature of the problem.
I have just gotten off the phone from speaking with ATI.
This thread has received tremendous attention and Short-Media believes that any issue should be investigated to its end conclusion. If one of our staff believes there is grounds for further investigation then Short-Media stands behind that staff member. If you feel that you have experienced a problem directly related to this alleged matter then please post verifiable and extensive information. Please do not leap to conclusions or make any sweeping judgements based on, what could be, non-related problems. It is not Short-Media's intent to accuse, confirm or deny the alleged issues but to assist in resolving this for both ATI and our valued membership.
ATI has this to say:
"RESPONSE TO ALLEGED MONITOR FAILURE ISSUE
We have spent a great deal of time trying to reproduce this problem and analyzing our driver code. There is nothing in our driver code that has changed since CAT 3.7 to CAT 3.8 that could possibly cause this behaviour. We believe that our drivers are not causing these alleged problems.
We do not currently believe these stories are valid. We have already confirmed that of the nearly 100 OEM customer programs have asked for and received this driver, we have received no reports on any such problem from the OEMs. We have also run comprehensive QA tests on the driver before releasing it and have had no cases of failed monitors.
Since we announced CATALYST 3.8 on October 8th, we have recorded hundreds of thousands of downloads, and thus far there have been absolutely no reports whatsoever to ATI's Customer Support department to report monitors failing.
TECHNICAL REBUTTAL OF MONITOR FAILURE ALLEGATIONS
______________
There have been many posts in the forums discussing this issue, it seems it is a common theory, picked up from one place and keep being circulated. One such theory suggests the following:
"Instead of reading the refresh rates from the PRIMARY display INF files, it is reading the SECONDARY display INF refresh rates."
In XP and 2K, we don't have access to monitor INF information in our driver component that manages display capability. We have never used this monitor information for any purpose. We rely on EDID data or user override information to determine monitor capability. Even though the OS may use the monitor information to expose high refresh rate based on monitor INF content, the driver always restricts the actual refresh rate going to the monitor based on EDID or the user override. In essence, the user may be able to select from OS controlled monitor page (in advanced property pages) a high refresh rate but internally driver will restrict the refresh rate going to the monitor based on EDID information or user override information. If user set the override information incorrectly then incompatible signals would be sent to the monitor.
In 9x, we can access monitor INF information but due to issues with how OS maps the INF to a monitor, we had disabled reading the monitor INF via registry. Unless someone deliberately changes the registry setting for this in 9x, they would not run into any monitor INF related issues.
RESPONSE TO ALLEGED HARDWARE OVERHEATING ISSUE
We have spent a great deal of time analyzing the temperatures due to the CATALYST 3.8 drivers. We do not under any circumstance see anything near a 10 degree Celsius increase in temperature (but we don't overclock our test cards either). We do see a slight increase in temperature in certain cases (3Dmark2003 Nature Scene for example). However any temperature increase is well within our safety range. Investigation continues and we are trying to determine why this change in temperature exits. At this point we are reproducing individual driver packages with code being checked in and measuring the temperature. However nothing shows the alleged increase in temperature. One independent website even tried to reproduce this issue, and found no measurable difference in temperature between CATALYST 3.7 and 3.8."
Indeed, we doubt very much indeed that the rumours, reported on hardware web sites have much validity. We do remember a long time ago that you could POKE a Commodore Pet and make it burst into flames, but that happened very infrequently, as we recall.
One thing that strikes me with ATI´s excuses is, what happen if you disable the secondary driver in the device manager? Tell windoze to not even load it. Then theoretically, it shouldnt have any secondary .inf to take information from right?
Also, i use the tv out every day, would the driver shoot 200 mhz to the telly as well? I have never tried 3.8 and will probably never do either, but i´d like to solve this thing or at least get to the bottom of this. I mean, 200 monitors fubared later, and as many top of the line cards, ATI just HAVE to remove the drivers and pay the bill. Even if you have warranty on the monitor, the producer of those monitors is probably watching this thread closely as well and i bet they will send a hefty bill to ATI if this goes to far.
Hello guys, I would try to explain my problem with catalyst 3.8 in english...
1) uninstall 3.7 then install 3.8
2) some surf and 3Dgames, no problem (< 2h )
3) PC running, I shutdown the monitor for 1 day
4) 1 day later, when I put the monitor back on, the image flicks (nothing changes in the area of the monitor or PC tower). I got some waving sparkling strips slowly going down the screen, disturbing the image. Between these lines image is OK.
5) uninstall 3.8
6) re-install 3.7
7) image still had the same artefacts, but at a lower intensity. It is now tolerable. But it is really annoying.
The monitor has got the same behavior with a laptop/notebook under windows98...
So it is. Nothing changes except this catalyst upgrade...
And since a long time when I uninstall my ATI drivers, I delete the registry keys. But I would try to re-install 3.7 again with the "Rage3D Catalyst uninstallation help thread" procedure
Thanx for reading, see you
Hercules Radeon 9500 pro
Asus A7V333
Sony CPD-200ES
0
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited October 2003
Doc Overclock, I agree with you that the idea of a monitor being killed by a driver update is absurd in the extreme. However, with the number of people reporting monitor issues after having used the Cat 3.8s, I can't rule them out, regardless of what ATi says.
lethal50 had this to say Hello guys, I would try to explain my problem with catalyst 3.8 in english...
1) uninstall 3.7 then install 3.8
2) some surf and 3Dgames, no problem (< 2h )
3) PC running, I shutdown the monitor for 1 day
4) 1 day later, when I put the monitor back on, the image flicks (nothing changes in the area of the monitor or PC tower). I got some waving sparkling strips slowly going down the screen, disturbing the image. Between these lines image is OK.
5) uninstall 3.8
6) re-install 3.7
7) image still had the same artefacts, but at a lower intensity. It is now tolerable. But it is really annoying.
The monitor has got the same behavior with a laptop/notebook under windows98...
So it is. Nothing changes except this catalyst upgrade...
And since a long time when I uninstall my ATI drivers, I delete the registry keys. But I would try to re-install 3.7 again with the "Rage3D Catalyst uninstallation help thread" procedure
Thanx for reading, see you
I followed the same prosedure as you!
I have tried switching between differend versions of the driver (3,8-3,7-3,5) and it seems that the flickering is a bit better now.
(using a driver cleaning software)
The first time I installed 3,7 after reading this thread I thought the problem was solved. It was perfect for about 5 min....then I installed the Ati panel. Then it started flickering again!
I don't know if the Ati panel could be blamed or my triggerhappines. anyways I tried to uninstall the Ati Panel but still there is flickering. It is reeeealy annoying!
Is it to late for my monitor perhaps? I have tried connecting it to my notebook an still it flickers....
I have a Dell P991 Trinitron monitor
Amd 1,4
Ati radeon 9800 pro 128
Msi kt266 a motherboard
I've had previous experience with situations with other large manufacturers such as ATI. With another company I had questions and was impressed at the amount of time and effort that went into resolving those questions.
My past experience with ATI tells me that they will be looking into this matter with the same zeal.
I don't see how stupidly high refresh rates would damage anyones monitor, as basically any monitor made after 1995 automatically switches into standby mode or just gives you some info that the range is out of spec, i.e. If I set this monitor here to 400mhz it would just switch off and flash the front lights, or take the monitor down stairs, it would just come up with a message on the screen saying that the refresh rate was out of the monitors capabilities.
Televisions maybe (not the new ones) but monitors? No, I really don't think so.
NS
0
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
edited October 2003
ns, I believe that the theory is that the issue comes from the card cycling the refresh rate very rapidly, not from one rate being out of spec.
Geeky1 had this to say ns, I believe that the theory is that the issue comes from the card cycling the refresh rate very rapidly, not from one rate being out of spec.
Where can I find exactly what the drivers are being accused of doing? As the last 2 pages just seem to be people saying about it killing monitors, no actual expanation why (other than something about high refresh rates, which is what I picked up on). Still don't see how cycling refresh rates would damage a monitor, no matter how fast, as long as it wasn't doing it constantly for about 8 hours.
A better procedure for this would be to have everyone post the following information
OS
Motherboard Make and model including pcb revision
Processor
Monitor make and model
OC or stock setting?
Specifics on problem noted
Where the 3.8 drivers were downloaded from (ATI or ?)
How was the monitor plugged in: EG direct or with adapter or on which port.
It is important that you note any particular settings such as AGP 8X, Catalyst driver settings (Vsync enabled or not, etc) and if they are the Catalyst 3.8 drivers from the ATI website or another source.
In order to investigate this issue every aspect must be looked at for a possible common connection. For example, it could be everyone who has a Sony 17" monitor or only those with LCD analog running off a certain port. Who knows...but the more we know the better we may be able to trace this.
"Screen flicker results from a variety of factors, the most important of which is the monitor refresh rate. If the refresh rate is too slow, the screen may appear to glimmer. Another factor that affects screen flicker is the persistence of the screen phosphors. Low-persistence phosphors fade more quickly than high-persistence phosphors, making screen flicker more likely. Screen flicker can also be affected by fluorescent lighting. Also, screen flicker is a subjective perception that affects people differently. Some people perceive screen flicker where others do not. Most people perceive no screen flicker if the refresh rate is 72 MHz or higher. To reduce the affects of screen flicker, use solid colors for the Windows desktop, rather than dithers and patterns. If you have fluorescent lighting, you may want to configure your hardware to use a non-interlaced video adapter mode. "
Now look around the net and there are many sources that do state that too high a refresh rate will cause damage to a monitor. CRT monitors are more common in their ability to handle higher refresh rates than TFT (LCD analog or digital). Forcing any monitor above its factory specs (resolution combined with refresh rate) is not recommended.
Even a monitor manufcaturer, Hansol, says
"Note that your monitor will have limitations as to how high the refresh rate can be set, but there is no limitation to the number of colors your monitor is capable of producing. If you do not know the maximum refresh rates for your monitor, check the Specifications Chart. Setting this value too high can cause permanent damage to your monitor."
shwaip had this to say @wheek
Have you tried reverting to the windows standard driver(vgaSave or w/e), and then re-installing the cats? Also, have you tried a system restore to before when you installed the drivers? Your situation sounds like you may need a format and re-install tho
After I uninstall Cat & go into Win XP, it tells me it detects a video adaptor but strangely when it tries to find the driver fot standard VGA, it can't! :confused2
I can also confirm a prob with the 3.8s. I never had any artifacts with the 3.7s using my OC in sig. I started to use the 3.8s and got crashed and artifacts in 3D Mark. I formated the system and Iam back and happy with my 3.7s now.
Some folks seem to be having monitor problems -- the nice juicy claim of over 180 monitors being damaged by the Cat 3.8 drivers isn't supported by what I've read in the several threads at DriverHeaven or Rage3D forums, or elsewhere. Now, I have heard from several different people in the last few hours that there IS a major problem with driver-caused damage, but every single one could trace their numbers back to the start of this thread. As far as elevated temps go, posts at DriverHeaven by NeonCowboy comparing drivers suggest that the temps are higher with the Omega 3.8.5 drivers [based on Dell beta set] and the Cat 3.7 than on the Cat 3.8 -- as to one card -- and that the temps on all three driver sets are fairly high with an older card. I suggest you actually review what is being said on those threads before drawing conclusions. In terms of OC-related problems from the built-in-the-driver tweaker from ATI, I would suggest that they only work with the XT cards anyway. My temps aren't running higher with 3.8 nor with the Omega 3.8.5 than they did with Cat 3.7 or 3.6 or Omega reiterations thereof. I continue to run the latest Omega drivers without incident on my passively cooled Sapphire 9800 Pro Ultimate Edition and I will continue to monitor temps as always. No noticable difference in monitor behavior either -- but I will likewise keep an eye on it. So far I have no reason to believe that The Sky Is Falling.
Well, I've been bitten by the ATi bug here. Shortly after installing the Catalyst 3.8 drivers I noticed my monitor would randomly flicker and look like it was cycling modes or something, I thought nothing of this...then I saw this thread. After reading over all of the info posted, I decided it was time to roll back to the 3.7s, I did so, but it was too late. After I switched them back today, I was changing the resolution on the monitor (since after installing the 3.7s it sets to default 640x480) to its highest displayable res. that I always ran it at, 1280x1024x32b @ 60hz. But, the screen looked like it was going to do the same flicker thing as it did before...but the screen never came back, thats why I'm now typing this to you from my 1997 AuroraVision 15" monitor that came with my Packard Bell back in the day here's my specs:
OS - Windows XP Pro
Motherboard Make and model including pcb revision
Soyo Dragon Ultra KT400 retail.
Processor
AthlonXP 2100+ @ stock speed
Monitor make and model
ProView 17" (no model name) - not TruFlat model
OC or stock setting?
stock
Specifics on problem noted
Specifics listed above
Where the 3.8 drivers were downloaded from (ATI or ?)
ATi Drivers were downloaded from ATi's official website.
How was the monitor plugged in: EG direct or with adapter or on which port.
It was plugged directly in with a standard cable.
AGP was set @ 4x on my ATi Radeon 9700 Pro (official ATI Card)
It is in my opinion that this monitor failure is a direct result of the ATi Catalyst 3.8 driver shortcomings. The monitor flickering problem did not occur until after I installed the 3.8 drivers, I did not understand what was causing this until I saw this thread. This monitor had no problems and never flickered or went off in normal usage until I upgraded my drivers, it is also just slightly over one year old.
In respect to MediaMan's comments of not jumping to conclusions: My above comments are, as I stated, my opinion, however, it is in my opinion and I firmly believe the failure of my monitor is directly related to this issue. I have never had such problems with this monitor, nor did it ever flicker momentarily and then come back as it did after I upgraded to the official Catalyst 3.8 drivers.
Count one more person to have observed this behavior.
I started up Wolfenstein Enemy Territory and upon loading the game began to flicker violently. The best way to describe it would be that interlaced rolling you see on TVs that is viewed through a camera. Anyway, the screen just stayed that way and the image appeared to darken. I quickly typed in vid_restart and upon reloading the game the screen had stoped flickering/rolling.
However, when I exited Wolf:ET my computer was now hard locked. There was an error message displayed. Sorry, didn't get a chance to read it. I rebooted the system and things seem fine.
Needless to say, this erratic refresh rate sync (whatever it is) is a very real problem. It is not some isolated thing like ATI would have people believe. I fired off an ATI driver feedback, and hope they'll take notice that this isn't some made up problem.
Comments
BTW, I have a 9800 np and a 17" LCD and went back to the 3.7's a couple of days ago. Why take the risk? But ATi had better get this resolved because, like Tubby suggested, this could hurt them.
CAG:
Thank you for the commendations. That focus is what we strive for here.
seems like ati is saying that nothing is wrong... typical
Whoah...thnx for answering so fast.
This next argument might cause some flames and it is not intended, but here it goes anyway:
How many do you think (besides your case) that are trully genuine?
This has a little bit from anything, from nvidia people (or fanboys) taking advantage from this, to the fact that the monitor might have died from many other reasons....God's will, it was old, problems between the keyboard and the chair, and also the theory included (I don't like to discard anything).
I had a monitor dying on me 3 weeks ago, but it's a fact it had 6 years old and I have a lot of electrical problems in my area (blackouts, power surges...you name it).
I can't say anything for the monitors dying issue, but I'm sorry.
I used the 3.8 on my 9700np bios flashed to 9700 PRO. It can still do 400MHz on the core. Also a friend of mine got a 9800np that I bios flashed to a Pro (both cards with the obvious extra cooling of course) and reported me no issues anyway. Yet I reverted to 3.7, just to be sure.
This is a reply to the Monitor INF theory.
http://www.rage3d.com/#1066668794
I like your site man, keep the good work! I really want to know how deep the rabbit hole is in this one.
I have a 9700pro aiw. Specs are in my sig.
As you can see, nothing is overclocked, nothing is modded, and everything is stock, as it was comeing outta the box. The 9700pro aiw is a built buy, true blue ati card.
here are my findings:
-3.5/3.6/3.7+mmc8.7+remotewonder2.1 = no loseing monitor signal. Useing the 3.5 right now, since the 32bit gl bug is in the 3.6 and 3.7's. Been this way for 3 days now, without a flaw or problem one.
-3.8+mmc8.7+remotewonder2.1 = After about an hr, in very few cases, sometimes 2 hrs, I simply lose signal to the monitor. No warning, no nothing, just lose signal. I reboot, and everythings fine again, until about another hr, then I lose signal again. I tested it with mmc8.1, and older remote wonder, as well, and did the exact same thing with useing the 3.8's.
So, my question proposed to you all is, if this is NOT the 3.8's doing this, then what is it, and why would I be fine, useing the cat 3.5's when that's ALL I changed?, nothing else changed, and even useing the older mmc and remote wonder, with the 3.8's, I still lost signal, so what else would it be?
Usieng deduction, well, common sense would tell you, yeah there is definately something strange about the 3.8's, as NO other drivers have done this. So I say this to you, don't you think it's odd that all I have done is change the drivers around and antyhing with the 3.8's I get the signal loss, yet any combo of stuff and drivers below the 3.8's don't give me the issue, doesn't this sound od to you all?? Unless somone else can come up with a viable answer as to why this is happening, I have no other reason to believe otherwise than it is the 3.8's causeing issues, no matter WHAT ati and thier crew says, how else would you explain it if it's not the 3.8's.
NOTE: this is a discussion, I'm not made or uptight, jsut pointing out some things is all, so please don't start flameing, this thread is so pleasent right now, I love debates, without flames
"...I just bought a 9800PRO 256mb 2 days ago and installed it with a fresh copy of XPpro and installed drivers from the CD(3.5 I think?) anyways I got everything setup and got the latest drivers for everything but my videocard. I played Halo/rtcw for about 3-4 hours then I read a review of the new 3.8's on anandtech and downloaded them and installed them. When I loaded up Halo I got a message from my monitor saying the Frequency was out of range and then it reset it's resolution about 5 times very fast(heard 5 clicks) and then I got nothing but a black screen. I have since tried using my monitor on a different system and with different cards but it wont engage(the light just stays orange and wont turn on to green). Is my monitor broken? or is there a fix?"
And my favorite:
"My problems started with Cat 3.7. Shortly after installing 3.7 my dog died. Next, I upgraded to the 3.8s and I haven't been able to achieve an erection since then. What's up with that?"
My guess is that the last one isn't driver-related.
Thank you for the thoughtful manner in which you put forth your question. I am a healthy skeptic - it's hard to convince me of anything, and I have been reading all the "How ridiculous is this?" posts and threads all over the web. But I must say, this problem is being experienced by far too many people to be coincidental.
My opinion thus far is: There is definitely a problem with the Catalyst 3.8s. I will not speculate as to the exact nature of the problem.
A driver cannot blow out your monitor...
Even if the signal exceeded your monitors refresh rate the monitor would just refresh back to its comfort zone.
Cmon people this is ludicris...
Overheating? maybe.. blowing up monitors? NO WAY!!!!
I feel this is becoming a bloated trip to unreality.
This thread has received tremendous attention and Short-Media believes that any issue should be investigated to its end conclusion. If one of our staff believes there is grounds for further investigation then Short-Media stands behind that staff member. If you feel that you have experienced a problem directly related to this alleged matter then please post verifiable and extensive information. Please do not leap to conclusions or make any sweeping judgements based on, what could be, non-related problems. It is not Short-Media's intent to accuse, confirm or deny the alleged issues but to assist in resolving this for both ATI and our valued membership.
ATI has this to say:
"RESPONSE TO ALLEGED MONITOR FAILURE ISSUE
We have spent a great deal of time trying to reproduce this problem and analyzing our driver code. There is nothing in our driver code that has changed since CAT 3.7 to CAT 3.8 that could possibly cause this behaviour. We believe that our drivers are not causing these alleged problems.
We do not currently believe these stories are valid. We have already confirmed that of the nearly 100 OEM customer programs have asked for and received this driver, we have received no reports on any such problem from the OEMs. We have also run comprehensive QA tests on the driver before releasing it and have had no cases of failed monitors.
Since we announced CATALYST 3.8 on October 8th, we have recorded hundreds of thousands of downloads, and thus far there have been absolutely no reports whatsoever to ATI's Customer Support department to report monitors failing.
TECHNICAL REBUTTAL OF MONITOR FAILURE ALLEGATIONS
______________
There have been many posts in the forums discussing this issue, it seems it is a common theory, picked up from one place and keep being circulated. One such theory suggests the following:
"Instead of reading the refresh rates from the PRIMARY display INF files, it is reading the SECONDARY display INF refresh rates."
In XP and 2K, we don't have access to monitor INF information in our driver component that manages display capability. We have never used this monitor information for any purpose. We rely on EDID data or user override information to determine monitor capability. Even though the OS may use the monitor information to expose high refresh rate based on monitor INF content, the driver always restricts the actual refresh rate going to the monitor based on EDID or the user override. In essence, the user may be able to select from OS controlled monitor page (in advanced property pages) a high refresh rate but internally driver will restrict the refresh rate going to the monitor based on EDID information or user override information. If user set the override information incorrectly then incompatible signals would be sent to the monitor.
In 9x, we can access monitor INF information but due to issues with how OS maps the INF to a monitor, we had disabled reading the monitor INF via registry. Unless someone deliberately changes the registry setting for this in 9x, they would not run into any monitor INF related issues.
RESPONSE TO ALLEGED HARDWARE OVERHEATING ISSUE
We have spent a great deal of time analyzing the temperatures due to the CATALYST 3.8 drivers. We do not under any circumstance see anything near a 10 degree Celsius increase in temperature (but we don't overclock our test cards either). We do see a slight increase in temperature in certain cases (3Dmark2003 Nature Scene for example). However any temperature increase is well within our safety range. Investigation continues and we are trying to determine why this change in temperature exits. At this point we are reproducing individual driver packages with code being checked in and measuring the temperature. However nothing shows the alleged increase in temperature. One independent website even tried to reproduce this issue, and found no measurable difference in temperature between CATALYST 3.7 and 3.8."
Also, i use the tv out every day, would the driver shoot 200 mhz to the telly as well? I have never tried 3.8 and will probably never do either, but i´d like to solve this thing or at least get to the bottom of this. I mean, 200 monitors fubared later, and as many top of the line cards, ATI just HAVE to remove the drivers and pay the bill. Even if you have warranty on the monitor, the producer of those monitors is probably watching this thread closely as well and i bet they will send a hefty bill to ATI if this goes to far.
1) uninstall 3.7 then install 3.8
2) some surf and 3Dgames, no problem (< 2h )
3) PC running, I shutdown the monitor for 1 day
4) 1 day later, when I put the monitor back on, the image flicks (nothing changes in the area of the monitor or PC tower). I got some waving sparkling strips slowly going down the screen, disturbing the image. Between these lines image is OK.
5) uninstall 3.8
6) re-install 3.7
7) image still had the same artefacts, but at a lower intensity. It is now tolerable. But it is really annoying.
The monitor has got the same behavior with a laptop/notebook under windows98...
So it is. Nothing changes except this catalyst upgrade...
And since a long time when I uninstall my ATI drivers, I delete the registry keys. But I would try to re-install 3.7 again with the "Rage3D Catalyst uninstallation help thread" procedure
Thanx for reading, see you
Hercules Radeon 9500 pro
Asus A7V333
Sony CPD-200ES
I followed the same prosedure as you!
I have tried switching between differend versions of the driver (3,8-3,7-3,5) and it seems that the flickering is a bit better now.
(using a driver cleaning software)
The first time I installed 3,7 after reading this thread I thought the problem was solved. It was perfect for about 5 min....then I installed the Ati panel. Then it started flickering again!
I don't know if the Ati panel could be blamed or my triggerhappines. anyways I tried to uninstall the Ati Panel but still there is flickering. It is reeeealy annoying!
Is it to late for my monitor perhaps? I have tried connecting it to my notebook an still it flickers....
I have a Dell P991 Trinitron monitor
Amd 1,4
Ati radeon 9800 pro 128
Msi kt266 a motherboard
My past experience with ATI tells me that they will be looking into this matter with the same zeal.
thank god i have an OC'ed GeForce FX 5200
its not the best on the market, but its a hell of a card
Televisions maybe (not the new ones) but monitors? No, I really don't think so.
NS
Where can I find exactly what the drivers are being accused of doing? As the last 2 pages just seem to be people saying about it killing monitors, no actual expanation why (other than something about high refresh rates, which is what I picked up on). Still don't see how cycling refresh rates would damage a monitor, no matter how fast, as long as it wasn't doing it constantly for about 8 hours.
NS
It is important that you note any particular settings such as AGP 8X, Catalyst driver settings (Vsync enabled or not, etc) and if they are the Catalyst 3.8 drivers from the ATI website or another source.
In order to investigate this issue every aspect must be looked at for a possible common connection. For example, it could be everyone who has a Sony 17" monitor or only those with LCD analog running off a certain port. Who knows...but the more we know the better we may be able to trace this.
From Microsoft
"Screen flicker results from a variety of factors, the most important of which is the monitor refresh rate. If the refresh rate is too slow, the screen may appear to glimmer. Another factor that affects screen flicker is the persistence of the screen phosphors. Low-persistence phosphors fade more quickly than high-persistence phosphors, making screen flicker more likely. Screen flicker can also be affected by fluorescent lighting. Also, screen flicker is a subjective perception that affects people differently. Some people perceive screen flicker where others do not. Most people perceive no screen flicker if the refresh rate is 72 MHz or higher. To reduce the affects of screen flicker, use solid colors for the Windows desktop, rather than dithers and patterns. If you have fluorescent lighting, you may want to configure your hardware to use a non-interlaced video adapter mode. "
Now look around the net and there are many sources that do state that too high a refresh rate will cause damage to a monitor. CRT monitors are more common in their ability to handle higher refresh rates than TFT (LCD analog or digital). Forcing any monitor above its factory specs (resolution combined with refresh rate) is not recommended.
Even a monitor manufcaturer, Hansol, says
"Note that your monitor will have limitations as to how high the refresh rate can be set, but there is no limitation to the number of colors your monitor is capable of producing. If you do not know the maximum refresh rates for your monitor, check the Specifications Chart. Setting this value too high can cause permanent damage to your monitor."
After I uninstall Cat & go into Win XP, it tells me it detects a video adaptor but strangely when it tries to find the driver fot standard VGA, it can't! :confused2
Never have a problem!!!
Maybe it just my luck!!!!
btw, you guys should send a letter to ATI asking them to pay for what you have lost.
Computer Maniac
I can also confirm a prob with the 3.8s. I never had any artifacts with the 3.7s using my OC in sig. I started to use the 3.8s and got crashed and artifacts in 3D Mark. I formated the system and Iam back and happy with my 3.7s now.
-Florian
My 2 cents.
OS - Windows XP Pro
Motherboard Make and model including pcb revision
Soyo Dragon Ultra KT400 retail.
Processor
AthlonXP 2100+ @ stock speed
Monitor make and model
ProView 17" (no model name) - not TruFlat model
OC or stock setting?
stock
Specifics on problem noted
Specifics listed above
Where the 3.8 drivers were downloaded from (ATI or ?)
ATi Drivers were downloaded from ATi's official website.
How was the monitor plugged in: EG direct or with adapter or on which port.
It was plugged directly in with a standard cable.
AGP was set @ 4x on my ATi Radeon 9700 Pro (official ATI Card)
It is in my opinion that this monitor failure is a direct result of the ATi Catalyst 3.8 driver shortcomings. The monitor flickering problem did not occur until after I installed the 3.8 drivers, I did not understand what was causing this until I saw this thread. This monitor had no problems and never flickered or went off in normal usage until I upgraded my drivers, it is also just slightly over one year old.
In respect to MediaMan's comments of not jumping to conclusions: My above comments are, as I stated, my opinion, however, it is in my opinion and I firmly believe the failure of my monitor is directly related to this issue. I have never had such problems with this monitor, nor did it ever flicker momentarily and then come back as it did after I upgraded to the official Catalyst 3.8 drivers.
I started up Wolfenstein Enemy Territory and upon loading the game began to flicker violently. The best way to describe it would be that interlaced rolling you see on TVs that is viewed through a camera. Anyway, the screen just stayed that way and the image appeared to darken. I quickly typed in vid_restart and upon reloading the game the screen had stoped flickering/rolling.
However, when I exited Wolf:ET my computer was now hard locked. There was an error message displayed. Sorry, didn't get a chance to read it. I rebooted the system and things seem fine.
Needless to say, this erratic refresh rate sync (whatever it is) is a very real problem. It is not some isolated thing like ATI would have people believe. I fired off an ATI driver feedback, and hope they'll take notice that this isn't some made up problem.
For what it's worth, I recommend all of you respond to ATI's feedback. http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/
OS
Windows XP
Motherboard Make and model including pcb revision
Asus P4B533 (ACPI Bios Revision 1011)
Processor
Intel Pentium 4 2.4B
Monitor make and model
IBM P260 (21" Sony Trinitron OEM)
OC or stock setting?
Stock Settings
Specifics on problem noted
Where the 3.8 drivers were downloaded from (ATI or ?)
Yes, official 3.8 drivers.
How was the monitor plugged in: EG direct or with adapter or on which port.
Direct connection via DVI plug.