I just cannot figure out Shield Girl (to ref previous naming sheet). Maybe she's more effective when playing against people? (I've only bots). Butt Girl has no fish to slap people with, thus no interest. Cannot get Kong to be effective, at all.
Surprised I'm liking DJ. Really seem to get into a decent groove with Gamer Girl, Rocket Girl, and Mordekai.
It's fun. Enough that I'm poking at the contest for the game and headset, but not sure I am up to drop the bucks on it.
I've been tinkering with it this weekend, and it IS stupid fun, but I just don't think I have time for organized gaming any more. This blows donkey nuts.
@Snarkasm said:
I've been tinkering with it this weekend, and it IS stupid fun, but I just don't think I have time for organized gaming any more. This blows donkey nuts.
See that is what I love about it. It feels like a drop in and go kind of experience. A couple rounds are over in 15 minutes, you get a little taste, enjoy your PC then get back to all the stuff grown men have on their plates. It's not like WOW where there isn't a lot of value if you are ultra casual. TF3 welcomes casual players in a way that no other Battle.net title does.
Sure, but does that mean it's worth the $60? I haven't gotten a chance to play with ICers yet, and I don't know how often I'd get to in the future. That's how I'd have fun, so I just don't know if I'm willing to spend that on the chance I get that time.
@Snarkasm said:
Sure, but does that mean it's worth the $60? I haven't gotten a chance to play with ICers yet, and I don't know how often I'd get to in the future. That's how I'd have fun, so I just don't know if I'm willing to spend that on the chance I get that time.
$40!
0
RahnalH102the Green Devout, Veteran Monster Hunter, Creature EnthusiastNew MexicoIcrontian
@NullenVoyd said:
I just cannot figure out Shield Girl (to ref previous naming sheet). Maybe she's more effective when playing against people? (I've only bots). ... Cannot get Kong to be effective, at all.
Those two definitely are better with a team energizing with them. Most of the tanks are like that. Small to Medium amounts of damage and some sort of defensive ability for the team.
@Snarkasm said:
Sure, but does that mean it's worth the $60? I haven't gotten a chance to play with ICers yet, and I don't know how often I'd get to in the future. That's how I'd have fun, so I just don't know if I'm willing to spend that on the chance I get that time.
The base version of the game is $40. $60 version if you want all the extra goodies (4 skins and other Blizz game goodies.)
There are a few more pre-order bonuses for the $60 version from non-blizzard sources
Amazon: -20% for Prime customers on preorders and new releases
Gamestop: Mini baby Winston figure and a poster
Best buy: Overwatch heroes metal plate, 20% discount for Gamers Club members
(source random reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4axqmp/open_beta_and_preorder_stuff_you_need_to_know/)
I think Mountain Dew makes XTREME INFINITE MAXIMUM WARFARE for totally elite players. I never qualified to demo it because you have to be a proven ELITE GAMER to even get a code to download it.
@Karma said:
I have come to a conclusion. It's a fun game. I wish it was harder.
I think we are at a point where the community is all new and figuring out the strategy and mechanics. The playing field is level so for TF2 vets TF3 is a slightly easier transition.
Also, the play mechanics are less busy. I think TF2 had gotten out of hand with the modes and weapon and ability selection. TF3 stock configuration, it's nice to get to a back to basics aproach in a team shooter.
0
DontCallMeKelsoKelso 'The Great Asshole'San Jose, CAIcrontian
I know not what this TF3 is, I know Valve can't count to 3, so unless they sneakily released a 3rd... I'm not aware of anything called TF3...
I in no way shape or form think Overwatch is a bad game. I actually quite like it. That doesn't mean I don't have some problems with it. It's pretty obvious that I play games a little differently than the rest of IC. When I like I game I want to get the most out of it. I want to break it. I want to show I love creating a challenge out of shit. It's why I have close to 5000 hours int TF2. There is a massive amount of depth to a game so simple (I think some of what I am talking about will be shown below), and I wanted to perfect each challenge even though I am not sure I am really there with TF2 yet.
I think that's what made TF2 such a great game it had something for everyone. If you just love getting drunk and shitting around with friend, I know I do, TF2 is great. If you really want to dive deep into game theory and mechanics and coming up with new ways to doing things TF2 also had that. There is no right or wrong way to enjoy games. I am not saying that I am in some way "hardcore" and just better than anyone else because of how I derive enjoyment out of video games. It's just different.
Shit I already have the game preordered. I will enjoy it plenty. I don't think it will ever be a 5k hour game for me. Again THIS DOES NOT MEAN I THINK IT'S BAD. However, I definitely think it could be better.
I will try to explain what I mean by wanting it to be harder. Lot's of TF2 comparisons upcoming because that's what everyone else seems so keen to do.
Movement:
So in Overwatch like TF2 controlling the high ground is an important aspect. In TF2 you have the soldier who dominates the high ground. They have to rocket Jump to actually get there. To actually do this you have to damage yourself. There is a risk reward to this. I can survive better on the ground level getting med packs and the like. However, being up on the high ground I am able to pump more damage at put the other team on their heals since they aren't prepared for it. If they are however I am fucked I self-damaged and one rocket down going into any fight. This is just with a basic Rocket Jump, just to the high ground (think first point Thundermountain). However, I can also use rocket jumps to speed my way to the fight as soon as possible. This requires chaining together a bunch of jumps. THIS IS FUCKING HARD. Look at this shit.
Notice how there has to be multiple rocket jumps in a row.
There is an obvious advantage to getting someplace faster especially in the beginning of a game. Seal shit off and harass. However, you are there in front of your team so you have no back up less ammo and if you're unlucky no health.
I can't iterate enough Rocket Jumps are awesome, fun, and stupidly challenging. I am generally pretty okay at TF2, I fucking suck at rocket jumps. And it's not for lack of trying it's just actually challenging. Look at this other dude doing crazy shit with Rocket Jumps.
So overall, you get increased mobility through some difficult series of actions, and you damage yourself, all for a better height advantage.
In Overwatch there is the tf2 soldier wannabe Pharrah. I hit lshift and I have the high ground, no damage done.
There is also Demo jumping. Demo has to deal more damage to himself than soldier to achieve further jumps but they can do some crazy ass shit.
Junkrat kind of has the same mechanic (actually the most fun I had) with his concussion mines. I can't really tie them together though. So i can use it once to get some place but I may need two of them back to back to get to the actual flank that I am trying to get to. Therefore I just don't have the kind of mobility to really play with some of the strategy I would want. I dunno have it to damage to himself but then be able to tie them together.
Now let's talk about our fast in and out players. Scout and Tracer.
It's no secret I fucking love scout. It's the best class in tf2. There is a substantial risk reward for him. He hits hard and can evade like the dickens. However, each evade takes some "skill" okay so I have two jumps, a regular jump and a crouch jump. I can chain two of them together at a time. I can jump to left than crouch jump-back to the right real fast. Or do two regular jumps in a row. If I fuck up and do a crouch jump i can't do a regular jump back. Just a little challenge. Other classes can also nullify me hard. Say a soldier hits me up into the air. There is now some game theory going on. When should I jump he knows I only have one jump left so if he just waits a second to see which way I jump he can throw a rocket to right where I am going to land. I can take on any class one on one but if I don't get every dodge and every hit against a good soldier or heavy I am dead almost instantly.
All in all the challenge is nice.
Tracer, while not anywhere near as egregious as Pharah, is just a little simpler than scout. I lshift to the left lshift to the right and what not. And as far as I can tell I can't really be nullified in the act. Her going back in time thing also means it's way easier to recover from fucking up.
Let's talk about the engine itself. It seems to hate vertical travel. So, I talked about wanting high ground a lot earlier it's damned important, Blizzard knows that. That's why there's a whole bunch of interesting fun ways to do some Vertical travel. Yet, unless it's a perfectly flat rooftop you can't be on it. The number of times I fell off a slanted roof while trying to fly as Pharah was ridiculous. The engine just seems to force you done on to the ground to fight there. It's kinda boring that way.
Characters that can do too much:
So Blizzard seems to want to create this paradigm where there's one of each kind of Hero for each round. (It's ineffective in general imo) However, the player roles don't seem well defined. Mei for instance. She can control the battlefield with her walls of ice. She can freeze people pretty quickly. She can go invincible and regenerate. Those aren't really bad yet her main's alt fire is also stupidly strong. You can get headshots with it and one shot a lot of people. All in all she can just do too much for it really fit inside this predefined meta Blizzard wants to achieve.
There are also three characters very good at healing others. I don't see why it was necessary to give so many of the other characters their own self heals. Looking at you Bastion, Solider 76, and Roadhog.
The ultimates:
Some ultimates are just too strong and don't really require much to do it. Hanzo's giant ass dragon and Widowmakers ability to give everyone on the team the ability to see through walls. And on a personal level I hate things that have auto aim for you. So, I genuinely dislike soldier 76's and McRee's ults. It's a fucking shooter you should at least have to aim to shoot.
I dunno maybe they should make the ultimate meter thing restart on death, and slightly increase the rate at which it charges.
Aiming and the widowmaker problem:
I have no idea what it is about Overwatch but aiming seems too easy. Like the hit boxes are giant. I swear if you are just in the general vicinity it counts as a hit. I think the players in general all move very slowly on average. Even Tracer when she isn't jetting around appears to move very slowly. This leads to Widowmaker being like the lowest skill capped sniper I have ever played in a game. Every character is incredibly easy to hit, she does an absurd amount of damage for hitting really easy to hit targets, and she can FUCKING SHOW WHERE EVERY CHARACTER IS. I felt legit dirty playing Widowmaker.
The Battle:
This part may change not sure I can't tell at this point. In TF2 the medic can basically control the whole fight. A good Uber can completely stop any attack the other team may be launching. A good Kritz can win an attack. That's why in comp games the medic is the number one target, kill it and the whole momentum swings your way. It doesn't feel like Overwatch really has that kind of lynchpin. Yeah there are healers but the TTK is so low that they aren't really mission critical.
The Maps:
Okay these maps are fucking gorgeous. However, They seem designed to prevent flanking and promote a constant funnel into one direction. Or at least that's what it seems like. Many times I'd got to flank around only for the map to drop off and disappear and force you back into one place. Looking at you Greece map.
I have a few other nitpicky things I don't really care for. Gorgeous game and they are already trying to ruin it with some ugly ass skins.
Sorry if this doesn't read well my head hurts and I don't wanna proof read.
But to answer your question @primesuspect A game can be harder when not just playing better competition but by allowing players to derive their own challenges, faster ways to get places, better places to flanks so and so forth. It is never just 1v1 it's always 1v1vGame. But when you reduce what a lot of complex things would come down to, to 1 button clicks you lose that complexity. The game in turn feels easy.
These are clearly my opinions. I don't particular care if you think I am right or wrong. I am just trying to frame where I am coming from.
Anyone else getting moments where everything gets jumbled? Like players shoot around randomly in impossible ways and actions don't seem to go off or go off repeatedly in quick succession? I'd mark it up to net burps, but I've not seen lag be so... absolutely effing chaotic!
That was the best thing I've ever seen you post, Karma
My only response is that this game is still in beta. In September 2007 you had no idea TF2 had that much depth. Nobody did. The game hasn't even launched yet, so I would say not to judge a game that is not released yet versus a game that has had almost ten years of player exploration and development.
@NullenVoyd said:
Anyone else getting moments where everything gets jumbled? Like players shoot around randomly in impossible ways and actions don't seem to go off or go off repeatedly in quick succession? I'd mark it up to net burps, but I've not seen lag be so... absolutely effing chaotic!
There is actually known problems with certain ISPs that causes this issue. I can barely get 30 minutes in before I get a disconnected from BattleNet servers thing that pops up.
@primesuspect said:
That was the best thing I've ever seen you post, Karma
My only response is that this game is still in beta. In September 2007 you had no idea TF2 had that much depth. Nobody did. The game hasn't even launched yet, so I would say not to judge a game that is not released yet versus a game that has had almost ten years of player exploration and development.
I am not writing the game off. But that also being said TF2 today is not the same tf2 of 2010 I fell in love with. It's probably pretty well documented that I am not a particular fan of the direction TF2 has gone.
I think the shooters that I love ala TF2 circa 2009 and UT and UT 2004 have gone the way of the dodo.
@Karma said:
I have no idea what it is about Overwatch but aiming seems too easy. Like the hit boxes are giant. I swear if you are just in the general vicinity it counts as a hit.
A big part of this is the current tickrate of the beta. Blizzard confirmed a tickrate of 20.8 for the beta. This is super low for any shooter, and ends up being quite noticeable (in the form of kills that look like they should have never happened). They've confirmed that launch will be higher (60 I think), and possibly even higher for ranked competitive.
For reference, CS:GO and Unreal Tournament are at 54 (128 for CS:GO competitive). Anyways, could be why it feels the way it does. I know I've sure felt that in regards to shots that seem "off" still connecting.
Comments
TF3 is a damn good game.
Updated to reflect Icrontic naming conventions (as of this week, anyways)
lol @ "Shitowmaker"
I just cannot figure out Shield Girl (to ref previous naming sheet). Maybe she's more effective when playing against people? (I've only bots). Butt Girl has no fish to slap people with, thus no interest. Cannot get Kong to be effective, at all.
Surprised I'm liking DJ. Really seem to get into a decent groove with Gamer Girl, Rocket Girl, and Mordekai.
It's fun. Enough that I'm poking at the contest for the game and headset, but not sure I am up to drop the bucks on it.
I've been tinkering with it this weekend, and it IS stupid fun, but I just don't think I have time for organized gaming any more. This blows donkey nuts.
See that is what I love about it. It feels like a drop in and go kind of experience. A couple rounds are over in 15 minutes, you get a little taste, enjoy your PC then get back to all the stuff grown men have on their plates. It's not like WOW where there isn't a lot of value if you are ultra casual. TF3 welcomes casual players in a way that no other Battle.net title does.
Sure, but does that mean it's worth the $60? I haven't gotten a chance to play with ICers yet, and I don't know how often I'd get to in the future. That's how I'd have fun, so I just don't know if I'm willing to spend that on the chance I get that time.
$40!
Those two definitely are better with a team energizing with them. Most of the tanks are like that. Small to Medium amounts of damage and some sort of defensive ability for the team.
The base version of the game is $40. $60 version if you want all the extra goodies (4 skins and other Blizz game goodies.)
There are a few more pre-order bonuses for the $60 version from non-blizzard sources
Amazon: -20% for Prime customers on preorders and new releases
Gamestop: Mini baby Winston figure and a poster
Best buy: Overwatch heroes metal plate, 20% discount for Gamers Club members
(source random reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4axqmp/open_beta_and_preorder_stuff_you_need_to_know/)
@Ilriyas showing off his fancy POTG animation
Oh, I see... when I went to playoverwatch.com, it defaults to the origin edition, which is the $60.
I shall ponder. Maybe things'll get better when we move.
Ok fine bought.
Tonight's Mei gaem: https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03GXDQ27-F174CV1HS/download/2016-05-08_22-44-02.flv
I have come to a conclusion. It's a fun game. I wish it was harder.
How can a game in which you play against other people be "harder" other than by playing against better people?
Rolls eyes so hard they fall out out and journey to a new universe
You're not hardcore unless you live hardcore.
I think Mountain Dew makes XTREME INFINITE MAXIMUM WARFARE for totally elite players. I never qualified to demo it because you have to be a proven ELITE GAMER to even get a code to download it.
I think we are at a point where the community is all new and figuring out the strategy and mechanics. The playing field is level so for TF2 vets TF3 is a slightly easier transition.
Also, the play mechanics are less busy. I think TF2 had gotten out of hand with the modes and weapon and ability selection. TF3 stock configuration, it's nice to get to a back to basics aproach in a team shooter.
I know not what this TF3 is, I know Valve can't count to 3, so unless they sneakily released a 3rd... I'm not aware of anything called TF3...
When you're playing Bastion on attack
https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CiChmGMWUAAlfdH.mp4
This is the most Karma thing I have ever heard Karma say.
I in no way shape or form think Overwatch is a bad game. I actually quite like it. That doesn't mean I don't have some problems with it. It's pretty obvious that I play games a little differently than the rest of IC. When I like I game I want to get the most out of it. I want to break it. I want to show I love creating a challenge out of shit. It's why I have close to 5000 hours int TF2. There is a massive amount of depth to a game so simple (I think some of what I am talking about will be shown below), and I wanted to perfect each challenge even though I am not sure I am really there with TF2 yet.
I think that's what made TF2 such a great game it had something for everyone. If you just love getting drunk and shitting around with friend, I know I do, TF2 is great. If you really want to dive deep into game theory and mechanics and coming up with new ways to doing things TF2 also had that. There is no right or wrong way to enjoy games. I am not saying that I am in some way "hardcore" and just better than anyone else because of how I derive enjoyment out of video games. It's just different.
Shit I already have the game preordered. I will enjoy it plenty. I don't think it will ever be a 5k hour game for me. Again THIS DOES NOT MEAN I THINK IT'S BAD. However, I definitely think it could be better.
I will try to explain what I mean by wanting it to be harder. Lot's of TF2 comparisons upcoming because that's what everyone else seems so keen to do.
Movement:
So in Overwatch like TF2 controlling the high ground is an important aspect. In TF2 you have the soldier who dominates the high ground. They have to rocket Jump to actually get there. To actually do this you have to damage yourself. There is a risk reward to this. I can survive better on the ground level getting med packs and the like. However, being up on the high ground I am able to pump more damage at put the other team on their heals since they aren't prepared for it. If they are however I am fucked I self-damaged and one rocket down going into any fight. This is just with a basic Rocket Jump, just to the high ground (think first point Thundermountain). However, I can also use rocket jumps to speed my way to the fight as soon as possible. This requires chaining together a bunch of jumps. THIS IS FUCKING HARD. Look at this shit.
Notice how there has to be multiple rocket jumps in a row.
There is an obvious advantage to getting someplace faster especially in the beginning of a game. Seal shit off and harass. However, you are there in front of your team so you have no back up less ammo and if you're unlucky no health.
I can't iterate enough Rocket Jumps are awesome, fun, and stupidly challenging. I am generally pretty okay at TF2, I fucking suck at rocket jumps. And it's not for lack of trying it's just actually challenging. Look at this other dude doing crazy shit with Rocket Jumps.
So overall, you get increased mobility through some difficult series of actions, and you damage yourself, all for a better height advantage.
In Overwatch there is the tf2 soldier wannabe Pharrah. I hit lshift and I have the high ground, no damage done.
There is also Demo jumping. Demo has to deal more damage to himself than soldier to achieve further jumps but they can do some crazy ass shit.
Junkrat kind of has the same mechanic (actually the most fun I had) with his concussion mines. I can't really tie them together though. So i can use it once to get some place but I may need two of them back to back to get to the actual flank that I am trying to get to. Therefore I just don't have the kind of mobility to really play with some of the strategy I would want. I dunno have it to damage to himself but then be able to tie them together.
Now let's talk about our fast in and out players. Scout and Tracer.
It's no secret I fucking love scout. It's the best class in tf2. There is a substantial risk reward for him. He hits hard and can evade like the dickens. However, each evade takes some "skill" okay so I have two jumps, a regular jump and a crouch jump. I can chain two of them together at a time. I can jump to left than crouch jump-back to the right real fast. Or do two regular jumps in a row. If I fuck up and do a crouch jump i can't do a regular jump back. Just a little challenge. Other classes can also nullify me hard. Say a soldier hits me up into the air. There is now some game theory going on. When should I jump he knows I only have one jump left so if he just waits a second to see which way I jump he can throw a rocket to right where I am going to land. I can take on any class one on one but if I don't get every dodge and every hit against a good soldier or heavy I am dead almost instantly.
All in all the challenge is nice.
Tracer, while not anywhere near as egregious as Pharah, is just a little simpler than scout. I lshift to the left lshift to the right and what not. And as far as I can tell I can't really be nullified in the act. Her going back in time thing also means it's way easier to recover from fucking up.
Let's talk about the engine itself. It seems to hate vertical travel. So, I talked about wanting high ground a lot earlier it's damned important, Blizzard knows that. That's why there's a whole bunch of interesting fun ways to do some Vertical travel. Yet, unless it's a perfectly flat rooftop you can't be on it. The number of times I fell off a slanted roof while trying to fly as Pharah was ridiculous. The engine just seems to force you done on to the ground to fight there. It's kinda boring that way.
Characters that can do too much:
So Blizzard seems to want to create this paradigm where there's one of each kind of Hero for each round. (It's ineffective in general imo) However, the player roles don't seem well defined. Mei for instance. She can control the battlefield with her walls of ice. She can freeze people pretty quickly. She can go invincible and regenerate. Those aren't really bad yet her main's alt fire is also stupidly strong. You can get headshots with it and one shot a lot of people. All in all she can just do too much for it really fit inside this predefined meta Blizzard wants to achieve.
There are also three characters very good at healing others. I don't see why it was necessary to give so many of the other characters their own self heals. Looking at you Bastion, Solider 76, and Roadhog.
The ultimates:
Some ultimates are just too strong and don't really require much to do it. Hanzo's giant ass dragon and Widowmakers ability to give everyone on the team the ability to see through walls. And on a personal level I hate things that have auto aim for you. So, I genuinely dislike soldier 76's and McRee's ults. It's a fucking shooter you should at least have to aim to shoot.
I dunno maybe they should make the ultimate meter thing restart on death, and slightly increase the rate at which it charges.
Aiming and the widowmaker problem:
I have no idea what it is about Overwatch but aiming seems too easy. Like the hit boxes are giant. I swear if you are just in the general vicinity it counts as a hit. I think the players in general all move very slowly on average. Even Tracer when she isn't jetting around appears to move very slowly. This leads to Widowmaker being like the lowest skill capped sniper I have ever played in a game. Every character is incredibly easy to hit, she does an absurd amount of damage for hitting really easy to hit targets, and she can FUCKING SHOW WHERE EVERY CHARACTER IS. I felt legit dirty playing Widowmaker.
The Battle:
This part may change not sure I can't tell at this point. In TF2 the medic can basically control the whole fight. A good Uber can completely stop any attack the other team may be launching. A good Kritz can win an attack. That's why in comp games the medic is the number one target, kill it and the whole momentum swings your way. It doesn't feel like Overwatch really has that kind of lynchpin. Yeah there are healers but the TTK is so low that they aren't really mission critical.
The Maps:
Okay these maps are fucking gorgeous. However, They seem designed to prevent flanking and promote a constant funnel into one direction. Or at least that's what it seems like. Many times I'd got to flank around only for the map to drop off and disappear and force you back into one place. Looking at you Greece map.
I have a few other nitpicky things I don't really care for. Gorgeous game and they are already trying to ruin it with some ugly ass skins.
Sorry if this doesn't read well my head hurts and I don't wanna proof read.
But to answer your question @primesuspect A game can be harder when not just playing better competition but by allowing players to derive their own challenges, faster ways to get places, better places to flanks so and so forth. It is never just 1v1 it's always 1v1vGame. But when you reduce what a lot of complex things would come down to, to 1 button clicks you lose that complexity. The game in turn feels easy.
These are clearly my opinions. I don't particular care if you think I am right or wrong. I am just trying to frame where I am coming from.
//end
Anyone else getting moments where everything gets jumbled? Like players shoot around randomly in impossible ways and actions don't seem to go off or go off repeatedly in quick succession? I'd mark it up to net burps, but I've not seen lag be so... absolutely effing chaotic!
That was the best thing I've ever seen you post, Karma
My only response is that this game is still in beta. In September 2007 you had no idea TF2 had that much depth. Nobody did. The game hasn't even launched yet, so I would say not to judge a game that is not released yet versus a game that has had almost ten years of player exploration and development.
There is actually known problems with certain ISPs that causes this issue. I can barely get 30 minutes in before I get a disconnected from BattleNet servers thing that pops up.
I am not writing the game off. But that also being said TF2 today is not the same tf2 of 2010 I fell in love with. It's probably pretty well documented that I am not a particular fan of the direction TF2 has gone.
I think the shooters that I love ala TF2 circa 2009 and UT and UT 2004 have gone the way of the dodo.
https://gfycat.com/DecimalClearcutAsiaticwildass
A big part of this is the current tickrate of the beta. Blizzard confirmed a tickrate of 20.8 for the beta. This is super low for any shooter, and ends up being quite noticeable (in the form of kills that look like they should have never happened). They've confirmed that launch will be higher (60 I think), and possibly even higher for ranked competitive.
For reference, CS:GO and Unreal Tournament are at 54 (128 for CS:GO competitive). Anyways, could be why it feels the way it does. I know I've sure felt that in regards to shots that seem "off" still connecting.