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AMD Phenom II review

AMD Phenom II review

Comparing Phenom II to Intel’s i7

We currently do not have an Intel Core i7 on hand to test with, but one of our members stepped up to provide his complete system to compare against the performance of our Phenom II. You will find only a small variety of benchmarks until we receive Intel’s latest to do a more thorough comparison.

We’d like to make one thing clear right off the bat: AMD does not intend for Phenom II to compete directly with Intel’s i7, but rather “Upper Midrange” processors at about the $275 price point. They made it pretty clear that the entry price into the i7 arena is far greater than that of the Phenom II and that Phenom II is a viable alternative to processors like Intel’s Core 2 Quad Q9300 and Q9400. Intel’s i7 920 is not a terribly expensive processor at under $300, but the cost of an X58 motherboard and a triple channel DDR3 kit is what makes it a very costly proposition. AMD 790GX boards and DDR2 kits are just plain cheap in comparison. At the time of writing this, a quality 790GX board sells at around $150 compared to more than double that for an X58 board. With that said, comparing the Phenom II 940 to the i7 920 is not really a fair comparison from a financial perspective. None the less, we still think it is important to at least see how Intel’s latest and greatest compares to AMD’s flagship.

We were happy to learn that one of our long standing forum members, Khaos, recently purchased a shiny new i7 920 system including an MSI X58 board and some Gskill DDR3. He was generous enough to run a few controlled synthetic benchmarks to provide us with at least something modern on the Intel front to compare the Phenom II to.  It should be noted that it is not possible to conduct an apples to apples comparison between these two very different platforms, but we did our best to keep things as consistent as possible. We only ran Sisoft Sandra 2009 SP2 synthetic benchmarks as the obvious discrepancies between video cards would throw off any real world benchmarks.

Khaos’ i7 System Specifications:

  • Intel Core i7 920 (2.83GHz)
  • MSI X58 Platinum Motherboard
  • G.Skill PI Black DDR3-1600 CL8
  • Sapphire Radeon HD4870 1GB
  • 300GB WD VRaptor System
  • Antec Signature Series 650W PSU

Khaos simply loaded optimized defaults in the BIOS to obtain default clock speeds and memory configuration. His G.Skill DDR3 was set to run at 1066MHz and 7-8-8-19 timings. He is running Vista x64 like our test rig and disabled SuperFetch prior to running benchmarks as well.

Without further ado, let’s see how they compare.

phenom2_graph_i72

Intel’s Core i7 is a monster when it comes to raw number crunching performance. It has little difficulty leaving the X4 940 trailing by a pretty significant margin, especially in the Dhrystone ALU test. To remain competitive, AMD really needs to give the next iteration of the Phenom processor – or whatever its next name will be – a real boost in FPU performance.

phenom2_graph_i74

We see a less significant delta when it comes to cryptography processing. The Phenom II X4 940 actually outperforms the Intel Core i7 920 by a small margin in SHA256. AES256 processing favors the i7 but only slightly.

phenom2_graph_i73b

Even though Khaos left his DDR3 running at the default 1066MHz with far more slack timings than the DDR2, the i7 leads in memory bandwidth by almost 40%. Had we run the modules at their full PC3-16000 frequency, we would have seen an even larger delta. It is also amazing to see just how low the Q6600 bandwidth result is compared to the Phenom II and the i7. Intel really took memory bandwidth to the next level with the i7 compared to their previous generation.

phenom2_graph_i71

When it comes to memory latency, the i7 leads a bit. You can see the three levels of cache in the graph above. The i7 has slightly more L3, which helps between about 6 and 8MB blocks and once in main memory for the 16MB test, it leads the Phenom II by about 15ns or so. Overall, both processors have pretty low latency across the chart.

We know that wasn’t a terribly comprehensive comparison, but we were pleased to get some results from Khaos to get an idea of how Phenom II compares to Intel’s latest. We think it is pretty obvious that Intel takes the cake. Their Core i7 920 is significantly more efficient clock per clock – especially in heavily multi-threaded scenarios – and boasts better memory bandwidth and latency.

Fortunately for AMD, the high cost associated with the i7 platform means that AMD’s Phenom II doesn’t directly compete with it. What does concern us, however, is that AMD does not have something available that demanding power users – that don’t care about price – can select as a viable alternative to the Core i7. We only hope that they have some big guns in the works. We sincerely miss the days of seeing $1200 FX-57s sitting on the shelf. It just doesn’t seem right for AMD’s flagship processor to price it at only $275.

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Comments

  1. QCH
    QCH Very nice review... It's a shame that the Phenom II didn't do better but I am encouraged that AMD/ATI are back on the right path.

    Oh, and INTEL... Get Icrontic some review items!!!
  2. Winfrey
    Winfrey srsly Intel ^^
  3. Garg
    Garg Seems like a viable upgrade for someone like me with an older system and not a lot of money lying around. I wonder how long it'll be before i7 prices drop, though?
  4. Zuntar
    Zuntar Nice review Mike!

    I'm still gonna wait for the next round of fighters to hit the ring.
  5. Khaos
    Khaos Excellent review, Mike. Very informative.

    I sure wish that AMD's FPU performance was better. That's what is really killing them in the benchmarks, synthetic or otherwise.

    The memory bandwidth on both the i7/X58 and Phenom II platforms is more than adequate for today's applications.
  6. lemonlime
    lemonlime Thanks all. Just got some updates from AMD:

    Immediate OEM availability from: Dell, Cyber Power and Vigor

    Immediate part availability from: NewEgg, NCIX, mwave, zipzoomfly, Amazon and Tiger Direct.
  7. Komete
    Komete Great review, I'm still reading it. I finally see an Amd upgrade path for me. There is only one thing I wish you guys could have done in your review if you would have had the time. That is, if you could have posted max over clock performance of the AMD chips in with all the benchmarks. I notice, no one does this anymore.

    Now back to more reading :)
  8. Snarkasm
    Snarkasm Mike's still working on the OC. ;)
  9. Komete
    Komete After reading through, I have to say one of these chips would be more than enough for me (with a little ocing involved). I wonder if the Phenom II x3's and x2's will overclock well when they come out. Would be nice.

    Once the prices drop some I may have to snatch one up. Great review fellas! Way to go Lemon lime!
  10. Mt_Goat
    Mt_Goat Excellent review Mike! Intel may still hold the lead in overall performance. But I think the Phenom II is still a very viable platform when price is brought into the picture. For most folks this is more power then they would ever need and comes at a much better price point.
  11. DrLiam
    DrLiam Great review and I agree this is a step in the right direction for AMD. A few aces up their sleeves would be nice though.
  12. James I observed that the comparisons were made with a 2Ghz quad core Phenom II. A retailer near me sells the Phenom II Quad core at a 3Ghz clock speed. Would that mean that I could add another 33% to the benchmarks for AMD and say that it is a better choice than the i7?
    I can't wait until AMD blows Intel out of the water as far as multithreading with their release of the 12 core processor I read about last year.
  13. Snarkasm
    Snarkasm 12 cores is no better than 4 in today's software environment, really. There's such a tiny proportion of software that's prepared for parallel processing that it'll make no difference in the near future.
  14. Thrax
    Thrax Unfortunately not. The Core i7 is simply a superior chip in virtually every regard. AMD has improved their standings with the Phenom II, but as the conclusion notes it's a feat that is a day late and a dollar short.

    By the time AMD releases a 12 core chip, Intel will be well on their way to 8 core chips with hyperthreading to support 16 threads at a time. Anyone who wants AMD to succeed must wait for the Bulldozer in 2010.
    James wrote:
    I observed that the comparisons were made with a 2Ghz quad core Phenom II. A retailer near me sells the Phenom II Quad core at a 3Ghz clock speed. Would that mean that I could add another 33% to the benchmarks for AMD and say that it is a better choice than the i7?
    I can't wait until AMD blows Intel out of the water as far as multithreading with their release of the 12 core processor I read about last year.
  15. primesuspect
    primesuspect Xtremesystems had a party at CES that we sadly had to miss (well, Fatcat and Pseudonym made it), but anyways - they hit 6.4ghz last I heard. Liquid helium.
  16. BuddyJ
    BuddyJ They say you can't polish a turd ... but apparently if you cool it well enough, you can overclock it enough to blow the competition away. I'm all for the Phenom II.
  17. Snarkasm
    Snarkasm Liquid helium? High rollers.
  18. Thrax
    Thrax It doesn't work? Make it colder.
  19. Komete
    Komete That is true untill you factor in what you pay for performance. For the next 6 months to get into a core I7 setup will cost you about 700. 300 for the chip, 200+ for the mobo ( the lowest priced now), and around another 200 for memory. And that'll get you the low end offerings of I7. And as along as the q series quad cores are around, I don't see intel dropping the prices anytime soon.

    To get into the best of Phenom2, which by no means is a slouch, will be less than 400. 200 for the chip, 100 for the mobo, and 50 or so for the memory. The prices on the Phenom 2's will drop, making it even better deal a little later on.

    Grant it, I didn't include harddrives etc... But for the average shmo, and that includes me, core I7 is unattainable. However, I can get close to I7 performance, and even beat some of the lower offerings be going with the best of the Phenom 2 at nearly half the cost.

    If I go quad core, I really don't see an option other than phenom 2. There are the q cpu's series but all the worth wile motherboards are around 200. Killing the deal for me.


    Thrax wrote:
    Unfortunately not. The Core i7 is simply a superior chip in virtually every regard. AMD has improved their standings with the Phenom II, but as the conclusion notes it's a feat that is a day late and a dollar short.

    By the time AMD releases a 12 core chip, Intel will be well on their way to 8 core chips with hyperthreading to support 16 threads at a time. Anyone who wants AMD to succeed must wait for the Bulldozer in 2010.
  20. Thrax
    Thrax All the worthwhile motherboards are around $200? Hardly. The DFI BloodIron is an exceptional motherboard and hovers around $100. Even the world's best boards from DFI aren't much more than $140.
  21. Leonardo
    Leonardo
    they hit 6.4ghz last I heard. Liquid helium
    You can strap a parachute on a pig, pitch it out an airplane, and then say it flies. Intel or AMD, I find the liquid nitrogen/helium/fartgas demonstrations to be completely useless apart from entertainment. So what!!

    Komete, you can get a Q6600/motherboard combo EASILY for about $250 that will keep up with a Phenom II combo. Look, AMD is starting to go forward again (thank Heavens!), but they've merely transitioned from big disappointment, to yawn, to 'OK' we aren't crippled anymore.

    No, I'm not a Fanboy of any stupid brand or manufacturer. They are all just corporations, differing mainly in the letters that spell out their names. I'd buy Via if they had top performance at good prices. (AMD is Formula 1 and Rock 'n Roll compared to humble VIA.)
  22. Komete
    Komete You guys are both right. When you factor in the Q series quad cores there are some deals to be had. I've been mulling over what's out there. For me, if I were to go with a quad, it have to be a p45 motherboard. And looking at what's available, the prices start at around 150 for what I would accept. Pairing a quad core with a 3 generation old chip set just doesn't seem right to me.

    All that aside, Most likely my next pc will a highly overclocked e5200. Even my intel hating self can't pass that one up. That and the aps I use benefit more from a higher clock speeds than multi cores.

    Leonardo, I think the Fanboy stuff is nearly over. But I still wear my AMD opteron T-shirt every now and then.lol

    Thrax wrote:
    All the worthwhile motherboards are around $200? Hardly. The DFI BloodIron is an exceptional motherboard and hovers around $100. Even the world's best boards from DFI aren't much more than $140.
    Leonardo wrote:
    You can strap a parachute on a pig, pitch it out an airplane, and then say it flies. Intel or AMD, I find the liquid nitrogen/helium/fartgas demonstrations to be completely useless apart from entertainment. So what!!

    Komete, you can get a Q6600/motherboard combo EASILY for about $250 that will keep up with a Phenom II combo. Look, AMD is starting to go forward again (thank Heavens!), but they've merely transitioned from big disappointment, to yawn, to 'OK' we aren't crippled anymore.

    No, I'm not a Fanboy of any stupid brand or manufacturer. They are all just corporations, differing mainly in the letters that spell out their names. I'd buy Via if they had top performance at good prices. (AMD is Formula 1 and Rock 'n Roll compared to humble VIA.)
  23. fatcat
    fatcat
    Xtremesystems had a party at CES that we sadly had to miss (well, Fatcat and Pseudonym made it), but anyways - they hit 6.4ghz last I heard. Liquid helium.

    Ok lets get some facts out about the PhenomII at the Xtremesystems party.

    It was on liquid helium. They got WCPUID of 6.5ghz. The were able to do 3DMark05 @ 6.3ghz with 2 cores lower clocked to 6.0ghz and running @ -240c (thats not a typo)

    The best we saw the "Sekrit i7 975" that intel was using was 5.3ghz on LN2.
  24. primesuspect
    primesuspect They broke the world record for 3Dmark05, right?
  25. BuddyJ
    BuddyJ Extreme Liquid Rainbow Frozen Gypsy Tear cooling helps show us what a chip's limits are, and those limits translate into the performance numbers we see using mid-high end air cooling and water. We're now seeing one chip that may be slower clock-for-clock, but offers a higher performance ceiling going up against a chip that's faster out of the box but can only go so high. Which one do you pick?
  26. Leonardo
    Leonardo
    You guys are both right. When you factor in the Q series quad cores there are some deals to be had. I've been mulling over what's out there. For me, if I were to go with a quad, it have to be a p45 motherboard.
    The hard decision is not with price/performance ratios and manufacturer selection. You can get an outstanding performing machine from a combo based on either manufacturers' current technology. The hard decision is deciding what your time horizon is and rolling the dice for the best projected 'upgradeability' path. I have no answer for that!

    I'm sitting on Q6600-Socket 775 platforms. In my case, it turned out to be excellent. They are over a year old and still top performers, overclocked as they are. Were I having to pick a new platform today, ugh, I'd have to start the research all over again. A year ago, for top performance in multi-tasking the choice was obvious. Now that AMD has finally fallen out of bed and is awake, answers aren't so simple.
  27. fatcat
    fatcat
    They broke the world record for 3Dmark05, right?

    yes they set the 3DMark05 record saturday night.
  28. Monster Gamer Anybody looking to upgrade or just build a brand new computer, AMD's Phenom II would be the way to go IMO. In terms of cost, I wanted to go i7 but good motherboards cost more than $300 along with another $500 for the cheapest i7. That is just outrageously overpriced not to mention the ridiculously overpriced DDR3 memory kits they have out.

    AMD has a winner with the new Phenom II X4's and the AM3 based versions are going to have Dual DDR2/3 memory controllers which will only certify your AM2+ motherboard's longevity and cheaply priced DDR2 memory.

    I've ordered my Phenom II 940.
  29. Tushon
    Tushon I've been trying to decide between saving up and going i7 or getting a Phenom II 920/940 and this article + comments definitely made me go for AMD. Spending ~2x the money isnt worth it to me. I don't need ridiculously top of the line stuff but the Phenom II will definitely meet my needs. At least it will let me more fully utilize my PNY 9800 GTX+. Athlon 64 3500+ just isnt cutting it lol.
  30. Sledgehammer70
    Sledgehammer70 So I ran 3DMark06 at stock clocks on my new Phenom II 940 :) got some scores right around yours. Looks like my CPU score etched out the Q6600's but that could be for many reasons.

    CPU: 4574
    Score: 16452
  31. lee why did they have a overclocked 6600 and NOt an overclocked phenom II is ridiculous why they did this!
  32. Thrax
    Thrax It's simple. The 940 is 3.0GHz, and an overclocked Q6600 is 3.0GHz. This allows for apples/apples comparison of the Phenom II against what is currently the most prevalent quad core. It answers the question, "is it worth upgrading away from my Q6600?"

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