Camman had this to say Has anyone had ANY contact from ATi about this? They said they wanted contact info, they said they wanted details, well I along with a bunch of other people sent stuff, but as of yet I have not heard of any responses..
Catalyst Maker is apparently the head Catalyst driver developer....
NS
Yeah I understand Terry Makedon (Catalyst Maker) posted in this thread, but I was told by several people (Mediaman, prime, etc) that people having problems were requested (by ATi, who Mediaman spoke directly on the phone with I believe) to send all their information along, so I sent my email directly to Chris Hook @ ATi two days ago to answer this request, and I know a lot of people sent their info and stories to Terry, but I have yet to see a response from any of this.
honestplayer had this to say back to thread - can anyone who has a successful install of the cat 3.8 drivers post EXACTLY what they did on install - incl. what they uninstalled, etc. also what monitor, refresh rate, etc. they might be using.
so that those with 3.8 cat drivers might be able to identify what they did differently or ran differently.
heres mine:
did fresh win XP install, installed the 3.8 full version off ATI website. radeon 9500pro (128 meg version) on princeton EO2100 21" monitor at 1024 rez and 75 hertz refresh rate. ran 2 days no problems. so far, noticed no noticable effects or problems.
I simply followed Rage3D's uninstall guide (to remove the 3.7's), i.e cleaning out driver files, registry entries etc etc + obviously a normal add/remove Windows uninstall. Then installed the drivers (3.8's) then the control panel.
Like I said earlier, no problem here. TFT runs at 1280 x 1024 (17inch), DVI.
Yeah I understand Terry Makedon (Catalyst Maker) posted in this thread, but I was told by several people (Mediaman, prime, etc) that people having problems were requested (by ATi, who Mediaman spoke directly on the phone with I believe) to send all their information along, so I sent my email directly to Chris Hook @ ATi two days ago to answer this request, and I know a lot of people sent their info and stories to Terry, but I have yet to see a response from any of this. [/B]
Didnt know you guys were expecting a response from me actually. I actually am not the guy gathering the information for ATI. That would be someone else in the customer support department. If you have a problem and havent told us about it ask Simguy for our guys contact info.
I have nothing to report that is different from our last statement. We do not see any possible cause of monitors being impacted by CATALYST.
ps. I am going on vacation for a week starting tomorrow, so if you guys are expecting a response from me and arent getting one, you now know why
CATALYST MAKER had this to say
I have nothing to report that is different from our last statement. We do not see any possible cause of monitors being impacted by CATALYST.
[/B]
what about the cards failing?
I have to admit that my card was probably running hot, even with previous drivers. It would freeze up when I was gaming about 1-2 times a month. I think the 3.8's put it over the edge tho.
quick question - anyone with an LCD monitor having problems. noticed a trend that most ppl with LCD's - including me with an NEC 19" - havent had any problems with the 3.8s?
SimGuy had this to say Terry, are you giving me permission to publicly post Mr. Morrison's contact information at ATI?
No, sorry I wasnt clear Adam.
Can anyone who has not contacted or been in contact with ATI please PM SimGuy who will PM you back the direct contact number of the guy in charge of the investigation.
Thanks for the clarification Terry, I don't mind at all. Enjoy your holiday, as I'm sure it's well deserved
CATALYST MAKER had this to say
SimGuy had this to say Terry, are you giving me permission to publicly post Mr. Morrison's contact information at ATI?
No, sorry I wasnt clear Adam.
Can anyone who has not contacted or been in contact with ATI please PM SimGuy who will PM you back the direct contact number of the guy in charge of the investigation.
Hey anyone out there with their a 9800 and not being able to see anything on their screen?
After my monitor went out I recently tried connecting another monitor to my video card and I can't see anything! All I see is black! I get the green power light just blinking on my monitor... It is connected to the point there must be some signal since the "No signal" picture isn't flashing on my monitor until I pull my vga cable off the card...
Also tried connecting my computer to the tv but all I get is black...
Is my video card dead??
Please let me know if this issue can be resolved
I spoke with Mr. Chris Hook, Public Relations Representative for ATI Technologies Canada for forty minutes yesterday morning, October 22, 2003 concerning the suspected Catalyst 3.8 driver software issues.
Following that I spoke with Mr. Richard Morrison, the ATI Support Representative tasked with gathering all pertinent information regarding the suspected problems associated with the Catalyst 3.8 driver software for forty-five minutes yesterday afternoon.
In conjunction with these conversations, multiple e-mails regarding these suspected issues were exchanged between ATI's Terry Makedon and I. As a result of these conversations and communications, the following information is provided.
For the last eight days, ATI has been thoroughly investigating, line by line, feature by feature, their Catalyst 3.8 driver software suite, looking for any possible explanation to substantiate the claim that the Catalyst 3.8 driver software suite is responsible for damaging video cards and monitors. Their team of world-class engineers and software developers have been working steadily and diligently attempting to re-create the identical conditions under which these hardware failures may have occurred.
One imperative issue that has come to light is the fact that as of this posting ATI has only received a limited number of support calls where users have commented on their experiences with these suspected hardware failures.
Regarding the numerous monitor failures suspected of being caused by the Catalyst 3.8 driver software, I ask anyone who has experienced similar failures first-hand to contact ATI Support and provide them with all relevant information regarding both your system and your explanation of what occurred during the failure.
If you have modified your card in any way (such as BIOS flashing) and have still experienced a failure that you believe is related to this situation, I urge you to contact ATI Support and provide them with all relevant information.
ATI has generously agreed to continue to work with me and the entire computer enthusiast community on these suspected issues with the Catalyst 3.8 driver software even though I do not own a "Built By ATI" video card and I have flashed the BIOS on my Sapphire Atlantis 9800 with an unsupported Radeon 9800 Pro BIOS.
Only with substantiated data can this issue be identified and resolved in a timely manner.
For users who want to contact ATI Support regarding these suspected Catalyst 3.8 driver software issues, please feel free to PM me and I can provide you with direct contact information for the ATI Support representative that is responsible for gathering all information relating to these suspected Catalyst 3.8 driver software issues.
You have used the word "suspected" 8 times on your last post, guess how many times did you use it on your first post?
Quite a change of attitude uh? :rolleyes2
EQuito had this to say You have used the word "suspected" 8 times on your last post, guess how many times did you use it on your first post?
Quite a change of attitude uh? :rolleyes2
I didn't count any. However, I did see words like "precaution" (twice) and "possible", which does not make the first post as one-sided as you seem to believe it to be.
There was substantial evidence to indicate that a problem existed. The first post brought that evidence to the attention of the readers.
ATI, through their representatives, has given their side of the issue and made a case for the possibility that there is another explanation for the problems some people have been having.
No one really can say at this point what the ultimate outcome will be. I don't see it as a change of attitude, but rather a fair-minded willingness to acknowledge that fact.
After more than 280 posts on the subject, along with the data collected from affected users, it would only be reasonable to expect some adjustment in the focus of the investigation of this issue. Have you ever studied anything in-depth where your final analysis exactly matched your initial observations? Is it unreasonable to give ATI the benefit of the doubt - particularly since they have shown a seemingly sincere desire to get to the bottom of things?
Holy crap guys!!! Come on, it's LONG freakin' distance, who wants to call a 1-900 line to tell someone who CANNOT help you with your blown video card that you have one. The most rediculous thing I've ever heard, you want me to call ATI tech support line, give me a freakin 800 number. (Course there may actually be one, I don't know)
My Club 3D 9800 Pro just died and I had the catalyst 3.7 drivers installed.
Well, not exactly died, but its unusable in games. It heats up to immense temperatures you cant even touch the heatsinks and the whole card is damn hot.
I installed the 3.8 drivers for about 4 days last week, when I saw increased artifacts appearing on the screen I uninstalled them and dumped the 3.7 back on. After realizing yesterday how hot the card was I reinstalled windows, thinking that there must be some driver remains of the 3.8's cause its so hot, but the reinstall brought no coolness. After a couple of seconds/minutes running eg 3DMark it gets so hot it freezes up or crashes.
whether or not the drivers are to blame, i will skip the 3.8s altogether. I have a 9500 pro flashed to a 9700, i'm not even going to try these drivers. I doubt ATI is going to refund anybody at all, and they can preach their innocence all day long, i do think there is something wrong. I'll just wait until the 3.9s are released.
kanezfan had this to say whether or not the drivers are to blame, i will skip the 3.8s altogether. I have a 9500 pro flashed to a 9700, i'm not even going to try these drivers. I doubt ATI is going to refund anybody at all, and they can preach their innocence all day long, i do think there is something wrong. I'll just wait until the 3.9s are released.
Yeah, but the Catalyst 3.9 drivers could cause wormholes to emerge from your floppy-drive and destroy all of humanity!
that's true, here, i'll try the 3.8s on this radeon 7500 i use at work................................................................................................................................................
.............................................................................................................................................................................................
ok, let's see what happens, everything seems fine and I....wait a sec....what's that???......oh no!!!!....... oh my god!!!! there's killer ants crawling out of my case!!!! oh no!!!! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargrgwggaagtgagtgeawgawgagwg...........................................................................
............................................................................................ /me dies
Hi folks, this is kanezfan's skeleton here, you see killer ants don't eat bones, so you may now refer to me as kanezbones!
For those individuals that sent me their contact information. Thank you. I did ask for full name, phone number, time zone, email address and complete system specifications including a description of what you experienced. If I did not get a minimum of that information then I could not forward it to my contact at ATI.
I do thank you for doing what you could though.
I have been tenacious in my efforts to follow up with ATI on your behalf. If some of you have not been contacted by ATI yet then I do apologize as I have not received the support I was promised and thus disappointed you.
I will continute to beat my head against the wall in order to find resolution to this. :banghead:
The first link captures my sentiments very well. I am known for my anal nature when it comes to problem solving.
"My monitor is dead" may be a fact but I've received very nebulous details beyond that. A few have been very specific and very specific information is what I asked for.
The fact that a monitor is dead and the person is looking at the only recent change being a software installation would lead anyone to investigate that piece of software first. It's only natural.
If there's a gun on the ground next to a body and only one person is standing 10 feet away...that person may have just gotten there or may have been the person who pulled the trigger. You don't know but that person will be first to question I would think. Let's try to keep innocent till proven guilty in mind though.
The other article argues that it is impossible to cause damage to a monitor with their illustrated failsafes. This does not change the fact that, for some reason, many people have damaged equipment or temporarily non-functioning equipment. The fact is that another monitor manufacturer does state that too high a refresh rate CAN cause damage.
So which is it? Impossible or possible?
Do guns kill people or do people kill people?
A very astute member of Short-Media forums put a great deal of deductive reasoning into the Catalyst 3.8 issue. This member has a track record of consistent quality posts. Their nature does not portray an individual with any alterior motives except to deliver the best advice and help available to him.
There remains a need for a proper investigation to determine if there is another reason for the resulting hardware damage. Could it be that a conicidence of a monitor just breaking during that software use...ANY software installation and use. Given the laws of probability and the sheer amount of RADEON users and monitor owners...it could be.
If there are 183 reports that some of these are duplicated and of the remainders could a percentage be explained easily that are non-ATI related? Yes.
But of the others that remain without an immediately apparent explanation there must be an explanation. The odds of probability favor a commonality. It could be that the combination of certain computer parts, combined with a certain voltage fluxuation from the PSU in a certain humidity during a certain point of a game during a certain production line sampling of parts...caused the monitors to go "pfft". The odds are about the same as being hit by lightning.
But people do get hit by lightning. It DOES happen.
On the eve of a critical launch period this news comes out and people love controversy and bad news more than good news. "If it bleeds it leads". Fingers are pointed and the accused faces the loss of the almighty dollar and immediately moves to a defensive position.
Can you blame them?
But now, after the squall of hype has blown by and the spike of traffic has resumed to its normal line, some people still sit with a problem and no explanation. The PR machine of ATI is in a good position to work with these individuals to offer them some sort of explanation that is believable...even if it happens to be that the common thread between them is a certain, nearly impossible to repeat combination of parts and circumstances that caused this to happen.
Well unfortunately we have situations like Nvidia's flicker problem. I noticed that problem when I first got my Ti4600 and I wrote and wrote and wrote Nvidia to no avail. They kept putting the blame on the user and I finally gave up. It's one reason I went to ATI's products. Now after how many years? 2-3 is Nvidia now claiming that the flicker IS a problem.
Most of us enthusiasts are very intimate with our systems; meaning that we spend so much time with them we know something is not right but sometimes you just can't put your finger on it. This is my experience with the 3.8s. There is something wrong and hopefully the folks over at ATI can figure it out soon.
anyone know how long the warranty is on an 8500? i noticed the 9800 pro i was looking at today has a 3 year warranty, so maybe I can get my 8500 repaired?
0
Geeky1University of the Pacific (Stockton, CA, USA)
I'm new to this forum (been stalking here for some days ) and I can tell you, I was very close to buying a nvidia card for my new system. "Better less fps than having my expensive card/monitor damaged" I thought. But after I saw that my favourite PC seller had a Radeon Pro 9600 with VIVO function in store, I couldn't resist...
So now the system will be powered by ATI's fine Radeon Card, but I need to know which catalyst version I should use. I already decided not to use Cat 3.8, but what's with Cat 3.6 and 3.7? I read that they have problems with open gl. So am I totally safe using the 3.5 version?
Or are there other drivers which are not catalyst based, but also a good choice?
Thanks for helping me out in advance
Oh, and please don't mind my grammatical and/or spelling errors, I'm from germany and this is not my native language...
---
Fry: "Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things!
You know, a headache with pictures..."
Leela: "An idea?"
Comments
Yeah I understand Terry Makedon (Catalyst Maker) posted in this thread, but I was told by several people (Mediaman, prime, etc) that people having problems were requested (by ATi, who Mediaman spoke directly on the phone with I believe) to send all their information along, so I sent my email directly to Chris Hook @ ATi two days ago to answer this request, and I know a lot of people sent their info and stories to Terry, but I have yet to see a response from any of this.
With that much cooling going on it's no wonder your card has worked with the 3.8 drivers. It probably never gets hot.
I simply followed Rage3D's uninstall guide (to remove the 3.7's), i.e cleaning out driver files, registry entries etc etc + obviously a normal add/remove Windows uninstall. Then installed the drivers (3.8's) then the control panel.
Like I said earlier, no problem here. TFT runs at 1280 x 1024 (17inch), DVI.
Didnt know you guys were expecting a response from me actually. I actually am not the guy gathering the information for ATI. That would be someone else in the customer support department. If you have a problem and havent told us about it ask Simguy for our guys contact info.
I have nothing to report that is different from our last statement. We do not see any possible cause of monitors being impacted by CATALYST.
ps. I am going on vacation for a week starting tomorrow, so if you guys are expecting a response from me and arent getting one, you now know why
Thanks again for taking the time to talk to us.
Cheers
SPINNER
what about the cards failing?
I have to admit that my card was probably running hot, even with previous drivers. It would freeze up when I was gaming about 1-2 times a month. I think the 3.8's put it over the edge tho.
very curious why this happens?
No, sorry I wasnt clear Adam.
Can anyone who has not contacted or been in contact with ATI please PM SimGuy who will PM you back the direct contact number of the guy in charge of the investigation.
Hope you dont mind helping like this Adam
After my monitor went out I recently tried connecting another monitor to my video card and I can't see anything! All I see is black! I get the green power light just blinking on my monitor... It is connected to the point there must be some signal since the "No signal" picture isn't flashing on my monitor until I pull my vga cable off the card...
Also tried connecting my computer to the tv but all I get is black...
Is my video card dead??
Please let me know if this issue can be resolved
Thanks
I spoke with Mr. Chris Hook, Public Relations Representative for ATI Technologies Canada for forty minutes yesterday morning, October 22, 2003 concerning the suspected Catalyst 3.8 driver software issues.
Following that I spoke with Mr. Richard Morrison, the ATI Support Representative tasked with gathering all pertinent information regarding the suspected problems associated with the Catalyst 3.8 driver software for forty-five minutes yesterday afternoon.
In conjunction with these conversations, multiple e-mails regarding these suspected issues were exchanged between ATI's Terry Makedon and I. As a result of these conversations and communications, the following information is provided.
For the last eight days, ATI has been thoroughly investigating, line by line, feature by feature, their Catalyst 3.8 driver software suite, looking for any possible explanation to substantiate the claim that the Catalyst 3.8 driver software suite is responsible for damaging video cards and monitors. Their team of world-class engineers and software developers have been working steadily and diligently attempting to re-create the identical conditions under which these hardware failures may have occurred.
One imperative issue that has come to light is the fact that as of this posting ATI has only received a limited number of support calls where users have commented on their experiences with these suspected hardware failures.
Regarding the numerous monitor failures suspected of being caused by the Catalyst 3.8 driver software, I ask anyone who has experienced similar failures first-hand to contact ATI Support and provide them with all relevant information regarding both your system and your explanation of what occurred during the failure.
If you have modified your card in any way (such as BIOS flashing) and have still experienced a failure that you believe is related to this situation, I urge you to contact ATI Support and provide them with all relevant information.
ATI has generously agreed to continue to work with me and the entire computer enthusiast community on these suspected issues with the Catalyst 3.8 driver software even though I do not own a "Built By ATI" video card and I have flashed the BIOS on my Sapphire Atlantis 9800 with an unsupported Radeon 9800 Pro BIOS.
Only with substantiated data can this issue be identified and resolved in a timely manner.
For users who want to contact ATI Support regarding these suspected Catalyst 3.8 driver software issues, please feel free to PM me and I can provide you with direct contact information for the ATI Support representative that is responsible for gathering all information relating to these suspected Catalyst 3.8 driver software issues.
Quite a change of attitude uh? :rolleyes2
There was substantial evidence to indicate that a problem existed. The first post brought that evidence to the attention of the readers.
ATI, through their representatives, has given their side of the issue and made a case for the possibility that there is another explanation for the problems some people have been having.
No one really can say at this point what the ultimate outcome will be. I don't see it as a change of attitude, but rather a fair-minded willingness to acknowledge that fact.
After more than 280 posts on the subject, along with the data collected from affected users, it would only be reasonable to expect some adjustment in the focus of the investigation of this issue. Have you ever studied anything in-depth where your final analysis exactly matched your initial observations? Is it unreasonable to give ATI the benefit of the doubt - particularly since they have shown a seemingly sincere desire to get to the bottom of things?
It's long distance for me to call ATI Canada and I'm even in the same area code as them.
BTW, Check your PM
Well, not exactly died, but its unusable in games. It heats up to immense temperatures you cant even touch the heatsinks and the whole card is damn hot.
I installed the 3.8 drivers for about 4 days last week, when I saw increased artifacts appearing on the screen I uninstalled them and dumped the 3.7 back on. After realizing yesterday how hot the card was I reinstalled windows, thinking that there must be some driver remains of the 3.8's cause its so hot, but the reinstall brought no coolness. After a couple of seconds/minutes running eg 3DMark it gets so hot it freezes up or crashes.
Gonna try to biy a new card today :-(
Yeah, but the Catalyst 3.9 drivers could cause wormholes to emerge from your floppy-drive and destroy all of humanity!
Or not...
NS
.............................................................................................................................................................................................
ok, let's see what happens, everything seems fine and I....wait a sec....what's that???......oh no!!!!....... oh my god!!!! there's killer ants crawling out of my case!!!! oh no!!!! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargrgwggaagtgagtgeawgawgagwg...........................................................................
............................................................................................
/me dies
Hi folks, this is kanezfan's skeleton here, you see killer ants don't eat bones, so you may now refer to me as kanezbones!
I do thank you for doing what you could though.
I have been tenacious in my efforts to follow up with ATI on your behalf. If some of you have not been contacted by ATI yet then I do apologize as I have not received the support I was promised and thus disappointed you.
I will continute to beat my head against the wall in order to find resolution to this. :banghead:
"My monitor is dead" may be a fact but I've received very nebulous details beyond that. A few have been very specific and very specific information is what I asked for.
The fact that a monitor is dead and the person is looking at the only recent change being a software installation would lead anyone to investigate that piece of software first. It's only natural.
If there's a gun on the ground next to a body and only one person is standing 10 feet away...that person may have just gotten there or may have been the person who pulled the trigger. You don't know but that person will be first to question I would think. Let's try to keep innocent till proven guilty in mind though.
The other article argues that it is impossible to cause damage to a monitor with their illustrated failsafes. This does not change the fact that, for some reason, many people have damaged equipment or temporarily non-functioning equipment. The fact is that another monitor manufacturer does state that too high a refresh rate CAN cause damage.
So which is it? Impossible or possible?
Do guns kill people or do people kill people?
A very astute member of Short-Media forums put a great deal of deductive reasoning into the Catalyst 3.8 issue. This member has a track record of consistent quality posts. Their nature does not portray an individual with any alterior motives except to deliver the best advice and help available to him.
There remains a need for a proper investigation to determine if there is another reason for the resulting hardware damage. Could it be that a conicidence of a monitor just breaking during that software use...ANY software installation and use. Given the laws of probability and the sheer amount of RADEON users and monitor owners...it could be.
If there are 183 reports that some of these are duplicated and of the remainders could a percentage be explained easily that are non-ATI related? Yes.
But of the others that remain without an immediately apparent explanation there must be an explanation. The odds of probability favor a commonality. It could be that the combination of certain computer parts, combined with a certain voltage fluxuation from the PSU in a certain humidity during a certain point of a game during a certain production line sampling of parts...caused the monitors to go "pfft". The odds are about the same as being hit by lightning.
But people do get hit by lightning. It DOES happen.
On the eve of a critical launch period this news comes out and people love controversy and bad news more than good news. "If it bleeds it leads". Fingers are pointed and the accused faces the loss of the almighty dollar and immediately moves to a defensive position.
Can you blame them?
But now, after the squall of hype has blown by and the spike of traffic has resumed to its normal line, some people still sit with a problem and no explanation. The PR machine of ATI is in a good position to work with these individuals to offer them some sort of explanation that is believable...even if it happens to be that the common thread between them is a certain, nearly impossible to repeat combination of parts and circumstances that caused this to happen.
....and lightning struck.
Most of us enthusiasts are very intimate with our systems; meaning that we spend so much time with them we know something is not right but sometimes you just can't put your finger on it. This is my experience with the 3.8s. There is something wrong and hopefully the folks over at ATI can figure it out soon.
I'm new to this forum (been stalking here for some days
So now the system will be powered by ATI's fine Radeon Card, but I need to know which catalyst version I should use. I already decided not to use Cat 3.8, but what's with Cat 3.6 and 3.7? I read that they have problems with open gl. So am I totally safe using the 3.5 version?
Or are there other drivers which are not catalyst based, but also a good choice?
Thanks for helping me out in advance
Oh, and please don't mind my grammatical and/or spelling errors, I'm from germany and this is not my native language...
---
Fry: "Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things!
You know, a headache with pictures..."
Leela: "An idea?"
(Futurama; Episode 4-05)