LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited May 2006
uhh ohh ... Leo is comming RUN FOR THE HILLS ... GET OUT OF THE WAY
Thanks for the laugh. I'm actually a pretty nice guy, I just believe in the rules...as all our staff do.
Shorty~, we'll get this sorted out.
Shrief, welcome to Short-Media.
BTW, look at my signature. I've built or completely rebuilt about 20 computers since I got serious with PCs about eight years ago. I've built about an equal number of AMD systems as Intel. I just happen to have mainly Intel systems right now because these D820s were dirt cheap - Intel had a hard time selling as many as they manufactured.
To whom it may concern (and it's already been written in this thread): you can build an excellent performer based on AMD or Intel. Both companies make fine CPUs. Three years ago, Intel came off the edge have with a slight superiority in some performance areas. For the last three years, AMD has been the leader in many areas, especially gaming. The most important thing now is to get the best performance for a given budget. MtGoat has suggested two competing systems, both of which would make very fun, fast machines.
Thank you to all the posters who crossed the "flaming" line but managed to step back and apologize. I'm proud of you guys and am glad you are part of our community.
Just read this thread. It's better than the morning paper. Can we have a crossword puzzle corner?
0
Mt_GoatHead Cheezy KnobPflugerville (north of Austin)Icrontian
edited May 2006
SCAR and Thrax
Why are you guys trying to push an enthusiasts board with a mind boggleing amout of BIO settings for this guy as opposed to the stable straight forward board I am recomending. Your choices of vid card are more than what he has use for.
Thrax
The 3800 is way overbloated price/speed over the 3200 and 3500 CPU's. For $10.00 more he could get an X2 3800.
I would tell him to not even look at a single core cpu if he is thinking about keeping this for any length of time (2-3 years) Because all new apps, and operating systems are gonna run much smoother on it.
And on the mobo thing, yeh, unless he really wants to oc a lot, Id say find him a stable board that is relatively simple in its settings. I have to go to work really quick, so I dont have time to find one. But I shall be back at 3:30pm today. (full time jobs suck, but the money is good, not to mention I am now off all weekends and nights, period.)
... then when you go and see the speed of the processor you find out that it is a 2.8 or something like that ... I dont really like how they try and trick you like that ... specially when it is commonly known that when they say 3000 that is a 3.0Ghz proc.. and a 3.2 is a 3200 correct? .... Anyway I know that it is just a name they give so they can change it as the please but ... I have reason to believe that AMD may also produce like Intel such as the 3.8 aka 3800 (in AMD)... but what do we all know about 3.8? ...
We all know that it burns up like there is no tomorrow.... also for those of us that want a processor that will melt (if you dont give it proper heating) then you should get a 3.8 :P ... back to Shorty's PC ....
... sounds good except for the face that AMD is cheaper because the quality of the chips are not the same ... if anyone else has more to add on that plz go ahead and take it apart ^_*
Guys ... did any of you notice that you know how AMD may sometimes say ... then when you go and see the speed of the processor you find out that it is a 2.8 or something like that ... I dont really like how they try and trick you like that ... specially when it is commonly known that when they say 3000 that is a 3.0Ghz proc.. and a 3.2 is a 3200 correct? .... Anyway I know that it is just a name they give so they can change it as the please but ... I have reason to believe that AMD may also produce like Intel such as the 3.8 aka 3800 (in AMD)... but what do we all know about 3.8? ...
We all know that it burns up like there is no tomorrow.... also for those of us that want a processor that will melt (if you dont give it proper heating) then you should get a 3.8 :P ... back to Shorty's PC ....
I think that the ... sounds good except for the face that AMD is cheaper because the quality of the chips are not the same ... if anyone else has more to add on that plz go ahead and take it apart ^_*
You don't understand the concept. 3000, 3200, 3500, etc, are what AMD's speed is in COMPARISON to intel. For example, a 3500+ Venice may run at 2.4 GHz, but it is as good as an intel chip that runs at 3.5 GHz. Not trying to flame or anything, but do you see why I said you should do some research?
... I think that $60 for a power supply is over kill
I hope your joking, a cheap power supply is the quickest way to fubar a computer. Ask a couple of these guys about how a firworks display inside your case is never a good thing.
And the way that amd's rating system works is that a 3200 is at least (if not better) than a 3.2 Ghz intel processor.
You see, in fact, amd's processors are engineered better than intels (believe it or not, the proof is in your post) Amd's processors are able to push out much more data per clock cycle than intels processor is, thus making them much more efficient, and running much cooler, with less power, that is why amd is dominating the server market right now.
Lets say you have 300+ processors running in a small datacenter. You want to use as less electricity as possible, because the more watts of electrical energy you use, translates to joules of thermal energy. Which has to be cooled by expensive ac units.
Why do you think intel is redesigning all of their architectures, they finaly pulled their head out of somewhere and figured out that they cant just keep having high revving processors, because they pretty much hit a ceiling at the clock cycles pushing out more data. And amd is still using the k8 architecture because it was so well designed.
You see, in fact, amd's processors are engineered better than intels (believe it or not, the proof is in your post) Amd's processors are able to push out much more data per clock cycle than intels processor is, thus making them much more efficient, and running much cooler, with less power, that is why amd is dominating the server market right now.
Lets say you have 300+ processors running in a small datacenter. You want to use as less electricity as possible, because the more watts of electrical energy you use, translates to joules of thermal energy. Which has to be cooled by expensive ac units.
.
doesn't making it run at a faster speed make the life span shorter?
...okay, where do I begin, there is no simple answer to this, at a stock voltage level, the computer will last a very long time, if you were to overclock the processor, then yes, it will shorten the lifespan, depeding on how much you raise the voltage.
But normally, if you are into overclocking and fast hardware, you will have gotten new hardware we before it borks out. Lets say it will only last 3.5 years after oc'ing, big deal, must people into oc'ing only keep their rigs for 2 years max.
Fast hardware/oc'ing/tweaking/modding is very addicting, it has to be worst than crack, well, no, you wont spend all your money on it, but you will spend a good chunk of change on your "hobby". Call it what you want, you addict. The preceeding was a joke.
you are looking at very outdated benchmarks, and really, if you just want a cheap computer, and are only mildly interested in performance, then get a dell. You cant save money building your own computer anymore, its more of a hobby to do for fun, and its fun to work on, not to mention a nice conversation piece if it looks cool/spanks any prebuilt. One of the few advantages of building your own is that you know what you put in it, and you know that good hardware is in it. Trust me, dell saves money every where that they can.
ANYTHING computer-related you want, you'll find on Newegg. They have parts, as well as prebuilt computers. I'm not sure they care Dells, infact I'm pretty sure they don't, but you'll find some nice Acers, Sonys, etc.
I don't know, but that site doesn't look to reliable to me. I downloaded their benchmarking software, and it looks like spyware, so I'm not about to **** with it.
AMD does not "trick" anyone. Their chips run far more efficiently than their Intel counterparts. Benchmarks have proven this time and time again. Would you say that a three-cylinder Geo Metro is faster and more powerful than a Ford Mustang just because it runs at a higher RPM?
As for heat, Google "Presshot" and see whose CPU's are known as space heaters.
Regarding quality of the chips, could you point to a link from any reputable site to back this up?
doesn't making it run at a faster speed make the life span shorter?
Possibly, but you are talking about the difference between lasting ten years and (maybe) lasting fifteen years. Do you know anyone who still uses the same CPU they had in 1996, let alone 1991?
As for the benchmark you listed, it shows Integer Math only. That is great for a few very specific uses (like video rendering), but is not nearly as relevant in overall use. Look at the other three graphs at this page and you'll see a more fair comparison.
0
LeonardoWake up and smell the glaciersEagle River, AlaskaIcrontian
edited May 2006
Hi, Shorty~. Yup, the CPU comparison page you linked is definitely outdated by about three years. Prof provided a link to fairly up-to-date benchmarks.
So have you given up on building a machine? Don't feel intimidated. I know that my first build was a challenge, but I'm so glad I perservered.
well after being told about the deals on dell.com, i relaized hey why not? and i jsut googled intel vs. amd speed and thats what came up first. not really reading it
0
Mt_GoatHead Cheezy KnobPflugerville (north of Austin)Icrontian
edited May 2006
I thought the whole point of starting this thread was to get away from the Dell,etc. type OEM's.
well it was.. but then after all thisd talk, it seems that a pcwill be about the same price pre built compared to custom, and now i see the cheap but still pretty good pre built dells
and now it turns out i do not a monitor and keyboard and mouse
well it was.. but then after all thisd talk, it seems that a pcwill be about the same price pre built compared to custom, and now i see the cheap but still pretty good pre built dells
and now it turns out i do not a monitor and keyboard and mouse
Comments
$812 + shipping.
Thanks for the laugh. I'm actually a pretty nice guy, I just believe in the rules...as all our staff do.
Shorty~, we'll get this sorted out.
Shrief, welcome to Short-Media.
BTW, look at my signature. I've built or completely rebuilt about 20 computers since I got serious with PCs about eight years ago. I've built about an equal number of AMD systems as Intel. I just happen to have mainly Intel systems right now because these D820s were dirt cheap - Intel had a hard time selling as many as they manufactured.
To whom it may concern (and it's already been written in this thread): you can build an excellent performer based on AMD or Intel. Both companies make fine CPUs. Three years ago, Intel came off the edge have with a slight superiority in some performance areas. For the last three years, AMD has been the leader in many areas, especially gaming. The most important thing now is to get the best performance for a given budget. MtGoat has suggested two competing systems, both of which would make very fun, fast machines.
Thank you to all the posters who crossed the "flaming" line but managed to step back and apologize. I'm proud of you guys and am glad you are part of our community.
Whereas I hate all of you, and wish you a thousand years of pain and suffering.
Why are you guys trying to push an enthusiasts board with a mind boggleing amout of BIO settings for this guy as opposed to the stable straight forward board I am recomending. Your choices of vid card are more than what he has use for.
Thrax
The 3800 is way overbloated price/speed over the 3200 and 3500 CPU's. For $10.00 more he could get an X2 3800.
And on the mobo thing, yeh, unless he really wants to oc a lot, Id say find him a stable board that is relatively simple in its settings. I have to go to work really quick, so I dont have time to find one. But I shall be back at 3:30pm today. (full time jobs suck, but the money is good, not to mention I am now off all weekends and nights, period.)
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DE310RF1&s=dhs
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DB110RF1&s=dhs&fb=1
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DE510RF1&s=dhs
any input??
We all know that it burns up like there is no tomorrow.... also for those of us that want a processor that will melt (if you dont give it proper heating) then you should get a 3.8 :P ... back to Shorty's PC ....
I think that the ... sounds good except for the face that AMD is cheaper because the quality of the chips are not the same ... if anyone else has more to add on that plz go ahead and take it apart ^_*
soo what do u suggest?
I hope your joking, a cheap power supply is the quickest way to fubar a computer. Ask a couple of these guys about how a firworks display inside your case is never a good thing.
And the way that amd's rating system works is that a 3200 is at least (if not better) than a 3.2 Ghz intel processor.
You see, in fact, amd's processors are engineered better than intels (believe it or not, the proof is in your post) Amd's processors are able to push out much more data per clock cycle than intels processor is, thus making them much more efficient, and running much cooler, with less power, that is why amd is dominating the server market right now.
Lets say you have 300+ processors running in a small datacenter. You want to use as less electricity as possible, because the more watts of electrical energy you use, translates to joules of thermal energy. Which has to be cooled by expensive ac units.
Why do you think intel is redesigning all of their architectures, they finaly pulled their head out of somewhere and figured out that they cant just keep having high revving processors, because they pretty much hit a ceiling at the clock cycles pushing out more data. And amd is still using the k8 architecture because it was so well designed.
ha come again, $45 one?
dell has some pretty cheap complete pc deals, take a look and give a suggestion
http://www.passmark.com/cpureview/int_maths.htm
look at reviews of intel vs. amd speeds
doesn't making it run at a faster speed make the life span shorter?
But normally, if you are into overclocking and fast hardware, you will have gotten new hardware we before it borks out. Lets say it will only last 3.5 years after oc'ing, big deal, must people into oc'ing only keep their rigs for 2 years max.
Fast hardware/oc'ing/tweaking/modding is very addicting, it has to be worst than crack, well, no, you wont spend all your money on it, but you will spend a good chunk of change on your "hobby". Call it what you want, you addict. The preceeding was a joke.
you are looking at very outdated benchmarks, and really, if you just want a cheap computer, and are only mildly interested in performance, then get a dell. You cant save money building your own computer anymore, its more of a hobby to do for fun, and its fun to work on, not to mention a nice conversation piece if it looks cool/spanks any prebuilt. One of the few advantages of building your own is that you know what you put in it, and you know that good hardware is in it. Trust me, dell saves money every where that they can.
can you recommend any dells? (the site)
As for heat, Google "Presshot" and see whose CPU's are known as space heaters.
Regarding quality of the chips, could you point to a link from any reputable site to back this up?
As for the benchmark you listed, it shows Integer Math only. That is great for a few very specific uses (like video rendering), but is not nearly as relevant in overall use. Look at the other three graphs at this page and you'll see a more fair comparison.
So have you given up on building a machine? Don't feel intimidated. I know that my first build was a challenge, but I'm so glad I perservered.
and now it turns out i do not a monitor and keyboard and mouse
Listen to the other guys trying to help you out here instead.